The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

[Optimax]

Well, I don't believe the scriptures are the *only word of God*, for instance I believe very much so that God talked to Enoch about a lot of things, and also Adam and Eve, even though those thing are not in scripture. Yet they are not beliefs which are at odds with the Gospel.Maybe, maybe not. But you asked me two questions, one of which I quoted scripture from, and the other one which was not even applicable to me, which is sort of like asking me "Why do you believe Allah and Islam are true" when I don't even believe that. And Paul and them didn't bother to cite perfectly and word-for-word with verse numbers, so why should I...

The Bible states that Enoch walked with God. I am sure they talked a lot.

The Bible states that Adam and God walked in the cool of the evening. I am sure they talked some, but I do not believe it was for as long as God and Enoch walked before God took him.

My intent is to understand not just what you believe but why you believe it.

I have learned that the whys of what people believe reveal their true foundation. If they can explain the why's their foundation has some strength.

May not be right, but they have put effort into it rather than just believing and parroting what they were instructed to believe.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

The Bible states that Enoch walked with God. I am sure they talked a lot.

The Bible states that Adam and God walked in the cool of the evening. I am sure they talked some, but I do not believe it was for as long as God and Enoch walked before God took him.

My intent is to understand not just what you believe but why you believe it.

I have learned that the whys of what people believe reveal their true foundation. If they can explain the why's their foundation has some strength.

May not be right, but they have put effort into it rather than just believing and parroting what they were instructed to believe.

Thanks for sharing.

Very well said, Optimax.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The Bible states that Enoch walked with God. I am sure they talked a lot. The Bible states that Adam and God walked in the cool of the evening. I am sure they talked some, but I do not believe it was for as long as God and Enoch walked before God took him. My intent is to understand not just what you believe but why you believe it. I have learned that the whys of what people believe reveal their true foundation. If they can explain the why's their foundation has some strength. May not be right, but they have put effort into it rather than just believing and parroting what they were instructed to believe. Thanks for sharing.

Ah, well I guess it seems to me like an atheist would say "prove God exists using science." I don't have explicit scriptures for the Marian dogma, but it makes perfect sense to me, just like I don't have explicit scientific evidence for God even though I look at science and nature and to me, it all points to God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ah, well I guess it seems to me like an atheist would say "prove God exists using science." I don't have explicit scriptures for the Marian dogma, but it makes perfect sense to me, just like I don't have explicit scientific evidence for God even though I look at science and nature and to me, it all points to God.

What I can't understand, is why does your Denomination need 5 of them

http://www.christianforums.com/t6866068-101/
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.".....

 

[Optimax]

What I can't understand, is why does your Denomination need 5 of them

http://www.christianforums.com/t6866068-101/
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.".....

Brings to mind a strategy used by many today.

Repeat something often enough, even if it is not true, whatever it is believing that if people hear it repeated over and over and over that more and more will believe it and that will make it true.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Brings to mind a strategy used by many today.

Repeat something often enough, even if it is not true, whatever it is believing that if people hear it repeated over and over and over that more and more will believe it and that will make it true.

I am sure the Muslims would vote for it, as they also revere Mary

http://www.christianforums.com/t7244198-9/#post47246349
Islam and the Mary/Jesus story

 

[ivebeenshown]

What I can't understand, is why does your Denomination need 5 of them

IDK, why does God need three 'parts' (for lack of better word)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

IDK, why does God need three 'parts' (for lack of better word)

Typical apologetics....answer a question with a question ehehe

 

[JacktheCatholic]

What I can't understand, is why does your Denomination need 5 of them

http://www.christianforums.com/t6866068-101/
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.".....

There will be as many Dogmas as our King/High Priest Jesus Christ demands. Who are we to ask why? If the Paraclete so guides the Church to have five Marian Dogmas then let God's will be done.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There will be as many Dogmas as our King/High Priest Jesus Christ demands. Who are we to ask why? If the Paraclete so guides the Church to have five Marian Dogmas then let God's will be done.

Thks JtC! Can't argue wit dat!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Thks JtC! Can't argue wit dat!

 

[godisreal36]

As i watched Jeremiah the movie last night, I noticed how God does what He wishes regardless of what we believe. The Jews thought it was Blasphemy for Jeremiah to say God would destroy Jerusalem but they were wrong. The Jews thought it was blasphemy for Jesus to say the temple would be destroyed and they were wrong.

What does this have to do with anything? I don't know, maybe nothing but its been on my mind until I forgot and I remembered again when I stumbled or came upon this thread.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That "dogma" just is not scriptural, not based on scriptural evidence but on tradition of your church which is not admissible to a "jury" of different theologies.

I find this statement to be quite curious. I don't have a "church" much less a church with any form of tradition regarding the Assumption of Mary. I think most people in the church I do attend are quite unfamiliar with that dogma.

Like you, I wrestle with the dogma, attempting to see it through the lens of the Bible when, in fact, it is primarily viewed through the lens of Catholic Tradition.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As i watched Jeremiah the movie last night, I noticed how God does what He wishes regardless of what we believe. The Jews thought it was Blasphemy for Jeremiah to say God would destroy Jerusalem but they were wrong. The Jews thought it was blasphemy for Jesus to say the temple would be destroyed and they were wrong.

What does this have to do with anything? I don't know, maybe nothing but its been on my mind until I forgot and I remembered again when I stumbled or came upon this thread.

It was the draw of the Holy Spirit dear friend

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to stones ideal and devoted-things/ana-qhmasin <334> it hath been adorned He said.......

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

 

[Optimax]

I find this statement to be quite curious. I don't have a "church" much less a church with any form of tradition regarding the Assumption of Mary. I think most people in the church I do attend are quite unfamiliar with that dogma.

Like you, I wrestle with the dogma, attempting to see it through the lens of the Bible when, in fact, it is primarily viewed through the lens of Catholic Tradition.

Got me there, I thought you believed it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That "dogma" just is not scriptural, not based on scriptural evidence but on tradition of your church which is not admissible to a "jury" of different theologies.

Got me there, I thought you believed it.

Sorry. If you look at my faith icon you can see I am not Catholic. However, I don't mind being catholic or orthodox, for that matter.

 

[Standing Up]

There will be as many Dogmas as our King/High Priest Jesus Christ demands. Who are we to ask why? If the Paraclete so guides the Church to have five Marian Dogmas then let God's will be done.

Five's the number of grace. Mary provides the grace of God I'm told.

 

[Standing Up]

If we believe Mary was bodily assumed into heaven after her death, then is there any reason to believe that Peter, Paul, and the other apostles have not also been bodily assumed into heaven also?

We are, after all, talking about oral tradition, but I think I can build a case for that.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

If we believe Mary was bodily assumed into heaven after her death, then is there any reason to believe that Peter, Paul, and the other apostles have not also been bodily assumed into heaven also?

We are, after all, talking about oral tradition, but I think I can build a case for that.

Tradition tells us Peter is buried under the Vatican so he is not assumed in to Heaven from any early reports. Paul is the same, in Rome. The other Apostles are believed to be at various locations as well (or at least their bodies). From all known accounts Mary's body was assumed into Heaven and she is not claimed to be buried anywhere.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Tradition tells us Peter is buried under the Vatican so he is not assumed in to Heaven from any early reports.
Paul is the same, in Rome.

The other Apostles are believed to be at various locations as well (or at least their bodies). From all known accounts Mary's body was assumed into Heaven and she is not claimed to be buried anywhere.

Well then, I guess that settles that....at least until her bones are found