A question about food laws

[lmd0137]

I have seen arguments on both sides of this question and am just curious what you here in the fundamentalism sub-forum think. Do the food laws of the old testament (such as not eating pork) still apply to the modern Christian??

 

[sealacamp]

I have seen arguments on both sides of this question and am just curious what you here in the fundamentalism sub-forum think. Do the food laws of the old testament (such as not eating pork) still apply to the modern Christian??

If you choose to follow the law then they apply. As for me and my saved brethren we don't concern ourselves with such laws because they have been removed from our path and have no bearing on our condition in relation to our savior.

Sealacamp

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I have seen arguments on both sides of this question and am just curious what you here in the fundamentalism sub-forum think. Do the food laws of the old testament (such as not eating pork) still apply to the modern Christian??

The seperation of clean and unclean animals can be seen as far back as Noah and the different was not made just because God wanted a different. It is about what is best for us. God's death on the cross didn't change our digestive system, neither did it change the bodies of the clean or unclean animals. A Jew's body is no different to ours. The food laws were given to show what was best for us to consume and that does not change.

 

[Bible2]

lmd0137 said:

Do the food laws of the old testament (such as not eating pork) still apply to the modern Christian?

No, just as they didn't apply to the ancient Christian. For under the Christian New Covenant, no meat is defiled in itself (Romans 14:14); all meats are pure (Romans 14:20). Every meat is good, and no meat is to be refused if it's received with thanksgiving to God, for it's sanctified by the Word of God and prayer (1 Timothy 4:4-5). Let no one therefore judge you regarding what meat you eat (Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 9:10). For the kingdom of God doesn't consist of what meat we eat or don't eat, but consists of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17). Happy are those Christians who don't condemn themselves over what meat they eat (Romans 14:22), for no meat can defile them (Mark 7:18-19).

Jesus abolished the letter of all the Old Covenant Mosaic commandments on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 7:18-19, Colossians 2:14) and established the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, John 1:17). Christians are delivered from the letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law and aren't to keep the letter of any part of it (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Christians keep the spirit of the entire Old Covenant law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing unto others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

Jesus taught that Christians have to obey his New Covenant/New Testament commandments, such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19-7:29) and in the writings of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37, 1 Thessalonians 4:2). These New Covenant commandments far exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:20-48). So there's no reason why any Christian should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant commandments (Galatians 3:2-5:26).

Pharisaical thinking can deceive Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1, Galatians 5:4). But this a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9), for if any Christians are keeping the letter of any part of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, then they've fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

Christians can thank God that the abolished letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law was just a temporary "schoomaster" covenant (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary "shadow" covenant (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he'd set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16-29). No Christian should in any way desire to go back into bondage under the letter of any part of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 4:21-25, Galatians 5:1, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).

 

[nChrist]

As Christians, the Old Testament dietary laws do NOT apply to us at all. If one wishes to live under the Law, there are over 600 of them to go to work on. We're not under the Law, rather Grace.

Someone has already mentioned Romans 14, and that is an excellent portion of Scripture to study if you want to know about dietary laws. More Simple:

Colossians 2:13-17 (KJV) 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

I should mention that it is wrong for a Christian to intentionally try to keep the law unless they want to frustrate the Grace of God AND keep all of the Law. If you decide not to eat ham for health purposes that's fine, but if you abstain because of the Law there are problems you should be aware of.

Galatians 2:19-21 (KJV) 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:22-27 KJV But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Finally, remember that Fundamentalists are NOT legalists, and we should not be confused with Pharisees or Judaizers.

1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Galatians 5:1-5 KJV Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.​

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Unfortunately, Romans 14 is not about dietary laws. Are the people who are weak in the faith and eat herbs vegetarians? Is it a sign of a lack of faith to be a vegetarian. Romans 14 is about ceremonial practices still being observed among the Jews. If I do not believe in Jesus, I have no reason to stop making my sacrifices, thus no reason to refuse to refrain from certain foods on certain days and no reason to cease keeping certain holy days for special sacrifices holy. However, if I decide not to eat pork because Lev 11 says it is unclean, how does that show a lack of faith?

 

[nChrist]

Romans 14 most definitely applies to this topic, but other portions of Scripture I posted are more to the point. See my previous post for problems associated with intentionally trying to keep the Old Testament Law. If you don't eat pork because you think it's unhealthy that's one thing, but it's another matter entirely if you don't eat pork because of Levitical Law. We aren't under the Law - we've been freed by Jesus Christ and the Cross.

See Galatians 2:21, Galatians 5:4 and other portions of Scripture I posted. If you want to put yourself under the Law, you must be under all of it, and you make the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross in vain. All depends on what your motives are for abstaining from certain foods. Our part is to always give thanks for what God has provided for us to eat.

 

[DeaconDean]

Let us not forget the ruling of the first Apostolic Council and the restrictions given to Gentile Christians.

Concerning Gentiles and the "Law" both dietary and ritual, James said:

"James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." -Acts 15:13-29 (KJV)

That sums it up for me.

I have to:

"abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (vs. 20)

So important was this that it was mentioned again in verse 29:

"That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

James also reiterated:

"if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well."

That pretty much sums it up for me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Benevolous]

The food laws were given to show what was best for us to consume and that does not change.

A popular misconception, but wrong, nonetheless.

The dietary laws were given to distinguish the Nation of Israel from the pagan nations around it.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

A popular misconception, but wrong, nonetheless.

The dietary laws were given to distinguish the Nation of Israel from the pagan nations around it.

Actually what you said was the misconception. God's didn't give laws just to make a difference. God didn't just decide he would restrict them from eaten certain things in order to make them different. Since the days of Noah where there was no nation of Israel there were clean and unclean animals. God didn't give the laws to create a difference but it is because God's ways are different to man's ways that his followers would be different.

 

[CreationMakesSense]

For me, it's as simple as this:
God made animals to be inferior to mankind and for the better, and use of mankind.

 

[phoenixdem]

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of

an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:​

2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[Migdala]

Well, the thing is....all things are good, but not all things are good for us. The Lord gave us all herbs, etc. for us to eat...but does that mean we are to go outside and eat some poison ivy, or poison mushrooms? No, it doesn't. Same with certain foods....pork sure tastes good, but at the same time, it's filled with parasites, etc. because a pig will literally eat anything in it's path, including it's own vomit. So while we may be allowed to eat all things, not all things are good for our bodies to eat.

 

[DeaconDean]

God's didn't give laws just to make a difference.

Actually, He did.

For this reason the Torah has decisive power in the interrelations of men with one another. Israel and the Gentiles are essentially differentiated by possession or non-possession of the Torah. But individuals within Israel are also differentiated by their knowledge of the Torah and their position towards it. This is why the scribe comes to occupy so important a position in community life. Even if a man learns scripture and the Mishnah but does not serve with a wise man (as a pupil) he is regarded as “am ha arez”. He who has learned scripture without Mishnah is regarded as bor. But he who has learned neither scripture or Mishnah comes under, e.g. Prov. 24:20.

Jochana ben Zakkai, bSota, 22a

As long as Israel had the "Law" in the Old Testament, the Gentiles were left out. The only provision for Gentiles was that they had to convert to Judaism to be under the Blessings of Yehweh.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Actually, He did.



Jochana ben Zakkai, bSota, 22a

As long as Israel had the "Law" in the Old Testament, the Gentiles were left out. The only provision for Gentiles was that they had to convert to Judaism to be under the Blessings of Yehweh.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I didn't say this didn't create a difference. I said the reason given was not just to create a difference. God didn't give the laws just to create a difference or else it wouldn't matter what he told us to do or not to do. There must be sensibility behind what God told us not to eat. He didn't just decide on some random meaningless restrictions simply to make a difference. It is no coincidence that the nation of Israel were the healthiest nation.

 

[DeaconDean]

I didn't say this didn't create a difference. I said the reason given was not just to create a difference. God didn't give the laws just to create a difference or else it wouldn't matter what he told us to do or not to do. There must be sensibility behind what God told us not to eat. He didn't just decide on some random meaningless restrictions simply to make a difference. It is no coincidence that the nation of Israel were the healthiest nation.

Actually, He did.

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt." -Deut. 7:6-8 (KJV)

God promised to Israel, not the Gentiles:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people...And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." -Jer. 31:33, 32:38-40 (KJV)

Notice these words were not said to Gentiles, Jeremiah took these words to Israel.

Yes my friend, God certainly did not only place the Law to differenciate the Hebrews from the Gentiles, but God also nationally elected the Hebrews above all others. He set them apart.

This created a difference, a difference created by God.

God BLess

Till all are one.

 

[steve78]

The seperation of clean and unclean animals can be seen as far back as Noah and the different was not made just because God wanted a different. It is about what is best for us. God's death on the cross didn't change our digestive system, neither did it change the bodies of the clean or unclean animals. A Jew's body is no different to ours. The food laws were given to show what was best for us to consume and that does not change.

So glad I am a vegeterian.

 

[steve78]

The seperation of clean and unclean animals can be seen as far back as Noah and the different was not made just because God wanted a different. It is about what is best for us. God's death on the cross didn't change our digestive system, neither did it change the bodies of the clean or unclean animals. A Jew's body is no different to ours. The food laws were given to show what was best for us to consume and that does not change.

All this unclean animal stuff is due to our sins being passed onto the creature in the days before Jesus. Then the poor fatted calf or pig would get it on the scarficial alter.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

All this unclean animal stuff is due to our sins being passed onto the creature in the days before Jesus. Then the poor fatted calf or pig would get it on the scarficial alter.

No. I disagree. The reason I disagree is because in God's original plan, man was never suppose to eat any of his creatures. When sin came in, it didn't make some animals clean and some unclean. Its just a situation where none of the animals were supposed to be eaten, but if we must eat them, there are some we shouldn't eat because they were made for a purpose which would be bad for our health if consumed. Many of the unclean animals are scavengers.

 

[steve78]

No. I disagree. The reason I disagree is because in God's original plan, man was never suppose to eat any of his creatures. When sin came in, it didn't make some animals clean and some unclean. Its just a situation where none of the animals were supposed to be eaten, but if we must eat them, there are some we shouldn't eat because they were made for a purpose which would be bad for our health if consumed. Many of the unclean animals are scavengers.

I agree with you fully, thats partly the reason why I am a vegeterian.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.