Do you struggle with sin?

[awitch]

Here, let me rephrase this: If you don't think you sin, you are thinking to highly of yourself.

I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here, but I'll try again also.
In a Christian sense, yes, I sin...a lot; I break the first few commandments daily. It does not concern me because I am not a Christian and don't believe some of the things listed as sin in the Bible are actually sin.

I don't think so highly of myself that I'm better than any god if that's what you mean. I admit to personality flaws and poor choices and behavior that can offend my own deities.

Either you believe what the Bible says, or you don't.

That is one possible interpretation.

The Bible isn't a book where you pick and choose what you want to believe.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. I don't think it's possible to believe everything the Bible says literally...especially when you have parts that contradict the other parts.

If you are a Christian and do not believe everything that the Bible says, then there is a spiritual problem between you and God.

Maybe your God, but I think I'm doing ok with my own.

The Bible is God's word, and everything in it.

Sounds like you are idolizing a book.

My original message wasn't towards you, it was meant to be plural.

I can really only speak for myself.

 

[allen.hudson]

I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here, but I'll try again also.
In a Christian sense, yes, I sin...a lot; I break the first few commandments daily. It does not concern me because I am not a Christian and don't believe some of the things listed as sin in the Bible are actually sin.

I don't think so highly of myself that I'm better than any god if that's what you mean. I admit to personality flaws and poor choices and behavior that can offend my own deities.



That is one possible interpretation.



Sure it is. People do it all the time. I don't think it's possible to believe everything the Bible says literally...especially when you have parts that contradict the other parts.



Maybe your God, but I think I'm doing ok with my own.



Sounds like you are idolizing a book.



I can really only speak for myself.

You seem to be forgetting that I am coming from a Christian point of view. My original post was not directed towards you, if it were I would not have been referring to the Bible the whole time.

 

[JasperJackson]

... behavior that can offend my own deities.

This is interesting. Can you, or other non-Christian theists, elaborate on this?

 

[allen.hudson]

Sounds like you are idolizing a book.

I said that the Bible is God's word, and everything in it. Idolizing is "to worship as a God." I am not idolizing the Bible, I do not worship the Bible. I woship God, the creator of the Heavens and the Earth. I know you are not going to agree with me theologically, and you don't have to.

 

[awitch]

This is interesting. Can you, or other non-Christian theists, elaborate on this?

There are things that the gods frown on in my system, some of which are parallel to those in the Bible. Of course, lying (not in all situations), stealing, murder, cheating, and malicious behavior like that is considered bad.

Instead of reserving eternal punishment in the afterlife, or firebombing cities, or killing fish, I personally get what I call a "spiritual kick in the shin". For example, this might include having something to do where everything that can possibly go wrong, does, no matter how simple the task or how well planned out in advance it is.

 

[razeontherock]

There are things that the gods frown on in my system, some of which are parallel to those in the Bible. Of course, lying (not in all situations), stealing, murder, cheating, and malicious behavior like that is considered bad.

Note to self: a witch won't steal from you, but lying? Maybe. Check. (Seriously, major repercussions in my not-so-distant past due to that one)

Instead of reserving eternal punishment in the afterlife, or firebombing cities, or killing fish

What about the birds? You can't forget the birds!


I personally get what I call a "spiritual kick in the shin". For example, this might include having something to do where everything that can possibly go wrong, does[/QUOTE]

My Murphy?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

From what I gathered so far in this thread (and others), many flavours of Christianity seem to rely on a kind of psychological self-mutilation - something that goes WAY beyond simply acknowledging that every one of us has some faults and doesn't always live up to his or her own moral precepts.

I find that oddly disturbing, like witnessing a disturbed [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] tear into his own flesh and enjoying both the pain and the degradation.
"To each his own", you might say, and I tend to agree with you on that account. But then I start to think about the way such people will inseminate their children with similar beliefs, warping them until they think of themselves and others along the same lines. And it also makes me ponder the way such people might relate to others, how their very perception must be warped by their misanthropic streak. Then I think back to posts such as this, and I'm actually chilled to the bone.

Those who are willing to see only evil and corruption in themselves and others will find nothing else, except perhaps in a fabled realm beyond the confines of space and time.

 

[JasperJackson]

From what I gathered so far in this thread (and others), many flavours of Christianity seem to rely on a kind of psychological self-mutilation - something that goes WAY beyond simply acknowledging that every one of us has some faults and doesn't always live up to his or her own moral precepts.

I find that oddly disturbing, like witnessing a disturbed [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] tear into his own flesh and enjoying both the pain and the degradation.
"To each his own", you might say, and I tend to agree with you on that account. But then I start to think about the way such people will inseminate their children with similar beliefs, warping them until they think of themselves and others along the same lines. And it also makes me ponder the way such people might relate to others, how their very perception must be warped by their misanthropic streak. Then I think back to posts such as this, and I'm actually chilled to the bone.

Those who are willing to see only evil and corruption in themselves and others will find nothing else, except perhaps in a fabled realm beyond the confines of space and time.

I don't understand why you're so disturbed. We're only talking about stopping sins in ourselves, not self-mutilation.

I agree it's bad when people only see evil and corruption. For me, I try to give my sin the amount of attention it needs to overcome it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Robban]

I don't understand why you're so disturbed. We're only talking about stopping sins in ourselves, not self-mutilation.

I agree it's bad when people only see evil and corruption. For me, I try to give my sin the amount of attention it needs to overcome it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don,t think "Christianity" is the answer to anything. It may have started off on the right foot, but quickly became warped or distorted if you like. As it stands today, I have no sympathy for it. Though I may have sympathy for some who live under it,s yoke.

 

[Robban]

There are words that come to mind in different situations, when it comes to Christianity and Islam, there are words that come to my mind, if they came 100% from this person is up to one and all to research, Nachmanides (Rabbi Moses ben Nachman 1194-1270) Meant that there is a Divine purpose with both Christianity and Islam, however, they will both go off on their own "agenda".

 

[awitch]

(Seriously, major repercussions in my not-so-distant past due to that one)

That's unfortunate...sorry to hear that.

What about the birds? You can't forget the birds!

They're not dead, they're just sleeping.

 

[bling]

To me, God is so holy, like wow, that yeah, I'm probably sinning just by writing this right now in ways that I'm not even consciously aware of.

I honestly don't believe that it's possible to be a truly sinless Christian.

So sure.

I struggle.

Could a Christian be sinless for one minute?
How much do you want to be sinless?
Have you been around people that did not sin and how were they different from you?

 

[hikersong]

Putting aside the fact that we're not going to agree on what specifically is/isn't a sin, do you struggle with sin?
Is there anything about yourself that you think, say or do that you wish you didn't?

Yes. But like you hinted at, I wouldn't call it sin. It's just a word, but a word that is used by the control freaks, for want of a more specific description, to control other people. You see the only person who can change my own behaviour is me. Sure, other people can help if I ask them for help, but it's down to me at the end of the day. It's down to me to assess what needs changing. It's down to me to change it. Or not.

Do you think these things harm you in nay way? Harm others?

Possibly on both counts sometimes. I try and limit any damage I do to myself and others by taking prompt action. And obviously changing my behaviour. But with the best will in the world this can take time.

The one course of action I try to take before anything else is... not to dwell on my own fallibility. I've found festering guilt makes me more likely to carry out harmful behaviour than not.

Feel free to be vague about the specifics I don't want to pry into your personal lives, this thread is just about sin (or "sin") generally.

Quite right too and good that you mentioned it. As a christian years ago I several times confessed to embarrassing stuff in public. It never did me any good. Quite the opposite I believe. Those who demand it are certainly engaging in harmful behaviour.

Of course it can sometimes be good to talk ones life issues through. Trustworthy friends are the best. Occasionally, professional counsel will be of help.

edit: I use the description of harmful or damaging behaviour above to, potentially at least, describe any behaviour with which we ourselves are not happy about. There is of course the sort of harmful behaviour which is open to a wider moral judgement...usually through the criminal law.

 

[bling]

Yes, everyone sins. If we didn't, then there would have been no need for Christ to die for our sins. If you think Holy enough of your self to where you don't think you sin, than you have some spiritual problems going on, and you need to get right with God.

There is nothing that I wish I didn't do, I have learned from my past sins and have grown spiritually from them.

All mature adults have sinned but does 1 John 2:1 teach that we will sin or is "but if..." different from "but when..."?

 

[aeternusnox]

I think we all struggle with sin some more than others. Me specifically I'm a young man at college pursuing undergrad and do things I'm far from proud of... Constant sin makes you lose your joy, which I have lost. Becareful and stay in the word if not you will surely hurt your relationship wth God.

-A Christian trying to find his way back.

 

[razeontherock]

From what I gathered so far in this thread (and others), many flavours of Christianity seem to rely on a kind of psychological self-mutilation - something that goes WAY beyond simply acknowledging that every one of us has some faults and doesn't always live up to his or her own moral precepts.

Those who are willing to see only evil and corruption in themselves and others will find nothing else, except perhaps in a fabled realm beyond the confines of space and time.

I haven't read any other responses to this yet, so i don't know if I'll yet again be the odd man out, but this REALLY gets to the heart of the issue!

"True, Biblical Christianity" TM does NOT do this.

What it actually DOES do is not entirely different, and easily mistaken while looking from the outside in, and as you hopefully readily admit is your vantage point.

What the Gospel says, is that goodness is available to mankind ONLY through Christ, and that Christ transcends time. So goodness before the cross poses no problem.

Therefore we are to both look for and acknowledge good in one another as well as ourselves, with NO DISTINCTION between believer and unbeliever. The only such distinction is sharing the cup of Communion.

Therefore, "in us (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing." Yet we all have access to Life the same way.

I do realize Christianity has not presented these ideas clearly, or even Faithfully. I do hope I have not presented anything contrary to that, but do think this clarification really cuts to the chase, and holds w/ 100% integrity as it pertains to all my posts.

 

[razeontherock]

I don,t think "Christianity" is the answer to anything. It may have started off on the right foot, but quickly became warped or distorted if you like. As it stands today, I have no sympathy for it. Though I may have sympathy for some who live under it,s yoke.

This is what I call the difference between "religion" and Faith. Yes, it is possible to have G-d w/o religion

 

[Robban]

This is what I call the difference between "religion" and Faith. Yes, it is possible to have G-d w/o religion

Well I do not want to be guilty of throwing this thread off track, but religion to me, sounds like walking through life on eggshells.

 

[razeontherock]

Agreed, and very much on topic w/ the OP.

 

[b&wpac7]

This is what I call the difference between "religion" and Faith. Yes, it is possible to have G-d w/o religion

So do I have a religion or a faith, in your opinion?