John Shelby Spong: A Question

[Brushstroke]

I was wondering, how well-accepted is John Shelby Spong among Anglicans/Episcopalians/Old Catholics here in the forum and in the wider Anglican Communion?

 

[ebia]

Outside of N.America he isn't a huge influence.

 

[TomUK]

Different people give very different answers. Coming from a UK perspective, as ebia says he is hardly known outside of the 'academic' world.

 

[MKJ]

Some people really love him, some abhor him. /he isn't particularly well regarded as an academic as far as I've seen.

 

[wayseer]

I was wondering, how well-accepted is John Shelby Spong among Anglicans/Episcopalians/Old Catholics here in the forum and in the wider Anglican Communion?

I don't quite know what you mean by 'well-accepted' but in my neck of the woods his work is looked on more than favourably.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I would tend to be closer to the "abhor" category. I find it hard to look kindly on a "Christian minister" who denies so many essential/fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. He denies the virgin birth, he also denies the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Without the virgin birth, with out a physical resurrection of Jesus, the Christian faith does not exist. Without those essential teachings, at best, Bishop Spong teaches little more than a modern form of Gnosticism.

IMO - Bishop Spong is a good example of what is most wrong in the Episcopal Church (USA).

Kenith

 

[ebia]

I would tend to be closer to the "abhor" category. I find it hard to look kindly on a "Christian minister" who denies so many essential/fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. He denies the virgin birth, he also denies the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Without the virgin birth, with out a physical resurrection of Jesus, the Christian faith does not exist. Without those essential teachings, at best, Bishop Spong teaches little more than a modern form of Gnosticism.

IMO - Bishop Spong is a good example of what is most wrong in the Episcopal Church (USA).

Kenith

I would have to disagree about the virgin birth (or, more properly, virginal conception) - I hold it to be true but it is not remotely central to Christian faith in the way resurrection is.

 

[ContraMundum]

I would have to disagree about the virgin birth (or, more properly, virginal conception) - I hold it to be true but it is not remotely central to Christian faith in the way resurrection is.

I disagree with that, for various reasons that have been well drawn out in discussions before.

But, Bp Spong has had little influence apart from getting media attention and having his books sold in secular bookstores in the part of the world where I live.

 

[JasonV]

His work gets mixed reviews in my part of the Old Catholic movement.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Never heard of him until now....which means I'd bet money he's unorthodox in his ideas which means he gets no merit in my Old Catholic neck of the woods.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I see him as kind of a Barnum or Bailey sort of fellow. A lot of flash and show, but when you get beyond the smoke and mirrors, it's kinda cheap and sucrose. Does that make sense?

 

[wayseer]

I see him as kind of a Barnum or Bailey sort of fellow. A lot of flash and show, but when you get beyond the smoke and mirrors, it's kinda cheap and sucrose. Does that make sense?

No. I don't see Spong and sickly or sweet - he is too spiritually tough for sugar and spice. And his arguments, although popularize for mass consumption, are theologically supportable.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

I would have to disagree about the virgin birth (or, more properly, virginal conception) - I hold it to be true but it is not remotely central to Christian faith in the way resurrection is.

The virgin birth is necessary to Christ being God.

 

[christopherdombrowski]

And his arguments ... are theologically supportable.

LOL

 

[TomUK]

The virgin birth is necessary to Christ being God.

Not that i necessarily disagree, but i think when we start down that line of thinking when can very easily end up in the sticky situation Rome has found herself in regarding doctrines of our Lady.

The point that i believe Ebia is making is that while theological implications of the incarnation are important, belief in the virgin birth is not an issue upon which our salvation depends.

Though it's a slippery when you begin to rank doctrines of the Church, the physical resurrection of Christ is profoundly more important than the virginal state of Mary. In that sense they are simply not comparable issues.

 

[The Sentry]

Spong and I have very little in common

 

[wayseer]

Spong and I have very little in common

Unless you are a fundamentalist you have much in common.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Unless you are a fundamentalist you have much in common.

If believing the Nicene and Apostles Creeds makes one a fundamentalist, than you are correct.

If you do believe these creeds, as they have been historically understood by Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches, than you do have major differences with Bishop Spong.

Kenith

 

[ContraMundum]

Unless you are a fundamentalist you have much in common.

I am not a fundamentalist (in the sense Spong uses the word) nor do I have anything in common with him, nor do I think his arguments are "theologically supported", sure, logically he can try to make it fly, but theology is not about rationalizing revelation until it becomes palatable to the trends of the day..

 

[Polycarp1]

If believing the Nicene and Apostles Creeds makes one a fundamentalist, than you are correct.

If you do believe these creeds, as they have been historically understood by Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches, than you do have major differences with Bishop Spong.

Kenith

I take it my posts are to be disregarded in favor of third-party critiques then? I have personally with my own eyes and ears watched Bp. Spong recite the Creed at the Eucharist, and he is not the sort of man to mouth platitudes he does not believe. He may attach different meanings to its statements than you do, but that has been common Anglican practice almost from the beginning -- we share one Cup, not one Credal exegesis.

And while we're sitting in judgment over his theology, might we spare a moment to remember him as a strong fighter for social justice? The evangelical parish in Tarboro were he was rector, who differ with him so strongly that they invited him back for an anniversary celebration after he retird as bishop, certainly recalls him that way. The parish in Jerry Falwell's hometown which had him as rector next certainly does too. And around 10% of Episcopalians know he stood up for them when most church leaders would not.