My Geocentrism Challenge

[Rilke's Granddaughter]

Christians and others have always had trouble with the Bible's poetic descriptions. Take the 'waters above and the waters below' the sky. Many believe this referred to a dense 'vapor canopy' that collapsed during the deluge. But if you look at the context where it is found you see it is one of a series of 'separations' or distinctions. Land from sea, night from day, waters above from waters below. The purified waters 'above' are being separated and purified from the foul, unclean waters below. It's a great metaphor of God separating that which He has purified from the unclean, the earthy and carnal. Following the metaphor even further it is clear that the purified 'waters above' is but a fraction of the huge amount of unclean 'waters below' (only a few will be purified, at least in this mortal dispensation). The bible description 'seems' to indicate a substantial amount of water 'above', but I don't believe this was the case. My point being that whether poetic, allegorical, or metaphorical, God is revealing His plan and purpose for man. Once we know this determining what is 'literal' and what is 'poetic' is pretty easy.

Yes. If you accept that Genesis is almost entirely myth and metaphor, it makes it much easier to deal with.

 

[Split Rock]

For those of you who believe the Bible teaches geocentrism in Psalm 19, I challenge you to explain this:

Matthew 20:17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Did Jerusalem hover over the earth or something?

No. "Up to" does not mean it was hovering. It probably means it was on a hill. How is this supposed to show that the bible didn't teach geocentrism? Am I missing something?

 

[Delphiki]

These guys seem to forget that it was scientists who taught geocentrism back then.

Nearly EVERYONE taught a geocentric model. Scientists, not the clergy or bible, were the ones who proved the heliocentric solar system.

Copernicus is a pretty famous guy in history, you know.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nearly EVERYONE taught a geocentric model.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Scientists, not the clergy or bible, were the ones who proved the heliocentric solar system.

Right -- just like Pluto.

Scientists told us it was a planet -- and later -- scientists told us it wasn't.

Copernicus is a pretty famous guy in history, you know.

I know -- so was Ptolmey.

 

[Delphiki]

Scientists told us it was a planet -- and later -- scientists told us it wasn't.

You've already had this explained to you too. There was nothing found different about Pluto's characteristics than previously thought -- simply, that when the definition of a planet was refined, Pluto no longer qualified.

When we called it a planet and when we called it a dwarf planet -- it was still the same object. Same mass, same composition, same color, same size, same orbit, etc. Only how we defined it changed.

Besides, when science gets anything wrong, it's acknowledged and updated anyway -- that's how science actually works. Please stop trying so hard to be ignorant. I KNOW this stuff has been explained to you before.

 

[Delphiki]

I know -- so was Ptolmey.

Ptolemy had nothing to do with gecentricity/heliocentricity. For all he knew, the planets did loop-de-loops in the sky. All he did was track the movement of planets so we knew when and where they would be on any given night.

 

[Cabal]

Right -- just like Pluto.

Scientists told us it was a planet -- and later -- scientists told us it wasn't.

Don't worry Delphiki, AV usually does this on this topic.

Talk about how readily all Christendom accepted geocentrism from scientists like it was the simplest thing in the world, then as soon as the updated theory is presented and justified, boy, 300 years of heel-dragging and a couple house arrests for good measure.

And yet somehow it's all the fault of those dastardly scientists, even though they're the ones apparently swaying schizophrenically between total unquestioning acceptance and rejection to the point of court-martial. Go figure.

 

[Delphiki]

What do you expect? The extent of his "history" knowledge is a 2000 year old high fantasy novel.

 

[AV1611VET]

You've already had this explained to you too. There was nothing found different about Pluto's characteristics than previously thought -- simply, that when the definition of a planet was refined, Pluto no longer qualified.

When we called it a planet and when we called it a dwarf planet -- it was still the same object. Same mass, same composition, same color, same size, same orbit, etc. Only how we defined it changed.

Besides, when science gets anything wrong, it's acknowledged and updated anyway -- that's how science actually works. Please stop trying so hard to be ignorant. I KNOW this stuff has been explained to you before.

All I see you doing in this post, Delphiki, is agreeing with me.

I said what scientists did -- you're telling me why they did it.

 

[Delphiki]

All I see you doing in this post, Delphiki, is agreeing with me.

I said what scientists did -- you're telling me why they did it.

No, I'm not agreeing with you, because you are very wrong and very mistaken. I'm trying to educate you.

Scientists proving a heliocentric solar system is not "just like Pluto", as you say.

The historic shift from geocentricism wasn't a matter of updating a definition, it was a change in what we knew. Pluto was little more than a change in definition.

 

[Split Rock]

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Right -- just like Pluto.

Scientists told us it was a planet -- and later -- scientists told us it wasn't.

I know -- so was Ptolmey.

So, if the heliocentric model is "just like Pluto," then you are now saying you no longer agree with heliocentism? Good for you, AVET. The Bible clearly tells us that the Earth, not the sun, is the center of the solar system. Why accept what lying, wishy-washy SATANist internet scientists tell you anyway! They are the ones claiming that stars are like our sun and the sun is really big... Bibel Scholars like dad have shown us conclusively, using bible logic that this is nothing but an assumption.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, if the heliocentric model is "just like Pluto," then you are now saying you no longer agree with heliocentism?

You can twist things around until you have me saying something I didn't -- that's your prerogative, and I won't defend myself against those games.

 

[Split Rock]

You can twist things around until you have me saying something I didn't -- that's your prerogative, and I won't defend myself against those games.

Fine. here is what Delphiki wrote, and here is what you responded with. You tell me what you meant, because I think you are so used to yelling "Pluto" at everything we say that you have confused yourself to the point you have no idea what you are posting anymore.

Scientists, not the clergy or bible, were the ones who proved the heliocentric solar system.

Right -- just like Pluto.

Scientists told us it was a planet -- and later -- scientists told us it wasn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Fine. here is what Delphiki wrote, and here is what you responded with. You tell me what you meant, because I think you are so used to yelling "Pluto" at everything we say that you have confused yourself to the point you have no idea what you are posting anymore.

Scientists first tell us A -- then scientists tell us B.

• A = {geocentrism, Pluto}
• B = {heliocentrism, Pluto}

 

[Delphiki]

Scientists first tell us A -- then scientists tell us B.

• A = {geocentrism, Pluto}
• B = {heliocentrism, Pluto}

lolwut?

Please stop trying.

 

[Cabal]

Scientists first tell us A -- then scientists tell us B.

• A = {geocentrism, Pluto}
• B = {heliocentrism, Pluto}

The list would be 19000 times longer if it was Christians telling us what their articles of faith comprise of.

 

[AV1611VET]

The list would be 19000 times longer if it was Christians telling us what their articles of faith comprise of.

Only if you buy into what you hear on the Internet; and given that I don't think you could give me ½ of 1% of those, I'll call your bluff.

 

[Delphiki]

What is that even supposed to be? like a logic diagram or a... What is this I dont even...

• A = {geocentrism, Pluto}
• B = {heliocentrism, Pluto}

They tell us geo then helio and also they tell us Pluto and then Pluto?
They told us geocentric and Pluto and then heliocentric and Pluto?

Anyways.. that's a really nice scientifical diagram. It explains it scientifically with lots of sciencey-ness and math. I mean OF COURSE.. They're like "Pluto".. and then they were like "PLUTO!!!"


Ok.. I'm already wearing this out on myself. lol

 

[AV1611VET]

What is that even supposed to be? like a logic diagram or a... What is this I dont even...

• A = {geocentrism, Pluto}
• B = {heliocentrism, Pluto}

They tell us geo then helio and also they tell us Pluto and then Pluto?
They told us geocentric and Pluto and then heliocentric and Pluto?

Anyways.. that's a really nice scientifical diagram. It explains it scientifically with lots of sciencey-ness and math. I mean OF COURSE.. They're like "Pluto".. and then they were like "PLUTO!!!"


Ok.. I'm already wearing this out on myself. lol

The 'old timers' know exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Delphiki]

The 'old timers' know exactly what I'm saying.

Why? Are they senile?