My Geocentrism Challenge

[AV1611VET]

For those of you who believe the Bible teaches geocentrism in Psalm 19, I challenge you to explain this:

Matthew 20:17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Did Jerusalem hover over the earth or something?

 

[keith99]

Is Jerusalem on a hill?

In any case I like your example to illustate how things never said can be found in scripture by those who want to twist it. (That includes Christians, anti-Christians and ordinary fools).

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Is Jerusalem on a hill?

Mount Zion I think.

 

[Cabal]

Uh.....geocentrism doesn't disallow there being hills, AV.

 

[Vatis]

For those of you who believe the Bible teaches geocentrism in Psalm 19, I challenge you to explain this:

Matthew 20:17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Did Jerusalem hover over the earth or something?

What does the position of the earth in the solar system have to do with the position of a city on the surface of the earth?
I mean I know it's AV but still...
Argumenting this way I could claim that Jesus fought Nazi-Zombies who rode dinosaurs in the Korean war and back it up with the bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

What does the position of the earth in the solar system have to do with the position of a city on the surface of the earth?

"Over the earth" -- re-read the OP please.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I wouldn't let it bother you too much AV, it's probably a transcription error.

 

[keith99]

"Over the earth" -- re-read the OP please.

Looks like you will need to lay things out much more clearly. BTW is the Pslam 19 reference to a 4 corners or a foundations quote?

 

[AV1611VET]

Looks like you will need to lay things out much more clearly. BTW is the Pslam 19 reference to a 4 corners or a foundations quote?

Going to act innocent now, are we?

That's all I've heard since I've been here: the Bible teaching that the earth is geocentric.

Now that I have started a thread showing how Psalm 19 can be treated like Matthew 20, people are going to hide behind a wall of innocence, aren't they?

 

[Greg1234]

For those of you who believe the Bible teaches geocentrism in Psalm 19, I challenge you to explain this:

Matthew 20:17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Did Jerusalem hover over the earth or something?

Don't forget Psalm 98:8

"Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy;"

Wasn't there a theory where people thought that the earth could speak rivers could clap. Element-personism? Animism perhaps.

If there wasn't, it looks like the bible dodged at least one bullet.

 

[Delphiki]

I'm not aware of Matthew 20 describing geocentricity, but the book of Genesis, in the very begining, gives and absurdly horrible misunderstanding of the nature of earth, let alone the universe. Day and night with no sun? An ocean on top of the sky as well as below it? The stars are on the sky below the upper ocean? Plants with no sun? Birds before land animals? It may not be geocentric or anything, but it's certainly very wrong, and easily proven wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't forget Psalm 98:8

"Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy;"

Wasn't there a theory where people thought that the earth could speak rivers could clap. Element-personism?

If there wasn't, it looks like the bible dodged at least one bullet.

These guys seem to forget that it was scientists who taught geocentrism back then.

 

[Delphiki]

Don't forget Psalm 98:8

"Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy;"

Wasn't there a theory where people thought that the earth could speak rivers could clap. Element-personism? Animism perhaps.

If there wasn't, it looks like the bible dodged at least one bullet.

Well, you actually can't claim to take the bible literally if you don't believe it -- unless you simply don't know the definition if "literal".

People misuse the word "literally" all the time.

Youtube: watch?v=6ly1UTgiBXM LANGUAGE WARNING

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not aware of Matthew 20 describing geocentricity...

And Psalm 19?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, you actually can't claim to take the bible literally if you don't believe it -- unless you simply don't know the definition if "literal".

Yes, he can.

A literal interpretation does not mean you can't allow for figures of speech.

Do you take the newspaper literally?

 

[Delphiki]

And Psalm 19?

Let's compare, shall we?

4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,

Even figuratively speaking, as in it's not actually a literal tent, this is describing the sky, having an elevated limit to allow room for the sun. Basically, the sky is high enough to make room for the sun.

5 which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.

Not only being poetic here, but further describing the sky as making room for the sun to travel. It's now been likened to a tent and pavillion.

6 It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is hidden from its heat.

Sun comes up and goes across the sky, the whole world gets it's light as it does this. This could even possibly describe a flat earth, but I won't jump to any additional conclusions.



We're comparing that to Matthew 20 which just says "up to Jerusalem"

"Up" could mean hovering.. but it can also mean on a hill, or even north. I might go "down" to the store and pick up a gallon of milk, but that doesn't mean I'm going to do get out my digging equipment.

If Matthew 20 read something more like:
"And the ascended to Jerusalem, which sits on unseen pillars. The lord taketh them up to the city that watches from above like a cloud."

If it read like that, then I would say "yes" to what you're asking in the OP.

 

[KIYX]

For those of you who believe the Bible teaches geocentrism in Psalm 19, I challenge you to explain this:

Matthew 20:17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Did Jerusalem hover over the earth or something?

It's a hill.

 

[KIYX]

"Over the earth" -- re-read the OP please.

Basic misunderstanding of basic geology?

 

[KIYX]

These guys seem to forget that it was scientists who taught geocentrism back then.

The scientists were the ones getting tarred and feathered by guys like you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Christians and others have always had trouble with the Bible's poetic descriptions. Take the 'waters above and the waters below' the sky. Many believe this referred to a dense 'vapor canopy' that collapsed during the deluge. But if you look at the context where it is found you see it is one of a series of 'separations' or distinctions. Land from sea, night from day, waters above from waters below. The purified waters 'above' are being separated and purified from the foul, unclean waters below. It's a great metaphor of God separating that which He has purified from the unclean, the earthy and carnal. Following the metaphor even further it is clear that the purified 'waters above' is but a fraction of the huge amount of unclean 'waters below' (only a few will be purified, at least in this mortal dispensation). The bible description 'seems' to indicate a substantial amount of water 'above', but I don't believe this was the case. My point being that whether poetic, allegorical, or metaphorical, God is revealing His plan and purpose for man. Once we know this determining what is 'literal' and what is 'poetic' is pretty easy.