Again, the entire debate between Catholcism and Protestantism hinges upon salvation

[christianmomof3]

If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?

I believe that those who are loving the Lord with all of their heart, soul, and might and loving one another and living a life of taking Christ as their head and enjoying Him and expressing Him, would care for the one with nothing to wear by giving them something to wear if they were able to because the Lord within them would lead them to.
To merely care for the phyisical needs of others out of duty, without love and without praying for them and sharing the Lord with them is like giving welfare. The government does that. And what a wonderful system that is.

 

[boswd]

Scripture tells us to pursue Christ and to always rejoice, unceasingly pray, in everything give thanks.
Scripture tells us to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul and might.
Scripture tells us to love one another.
If we do those things, we really don't need to worry about "works".

you sure about that? You might want to re read Matthew again you know the part of the separation of sheep and goats. and while you are at it might give Jame 2 a whirl as well.

 

[boswd]

I believe that those who are loving the Lord with all of their heart, soul, and might and loving one another and living a life of taking Christ as their head and enjoying Him and expressing Him, would care for the one with nothing to wear by giving them something to wear if they were able to because the Lord within them would lead them to.
To merely care for the phyisical needs of others out of duty, without love and without praying for them and sharing the Lord with them is like giving welfare. The government does that. And what a wonderful system that is.

I agree but do you believe that you are making the conscience choice to care for one another or is it done automatically for us?

 

[christianmomof3]

you sure about that? You might want to re read Matthew again you know the part of the separation of sheep and goats. and while you are at it might give Jame 2 a whirl as well.

Um, the point is, that if we do those things- pursue Christ, pray unceasingly, always rejoice, take Christ as our head, love the Lord, love others, then we will spontaneously express Christ in whatever "works" He Himself leads us to do.
We won't have to try to think up "works" to do on our own or worry if we are behaving properly because if we actually do take Christ as our head and live Him and express Him then our living and expression and works will be proper and exactly what the Lord wants us to do.

 

[boswd]

Not yet, doesn't look like.

The publisher isn't the largest multimedia corporation on Earth, they probably can't afford it at this point. And Into Great Silence, while highly critically acclaimed, isn't exactly mainstream entertainment.

too bad something like that in nce crisp HD would be amazing.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

To be perfectly honest, as far as "salvation by works" are concerned, I don't see a major difference between the theology of Rome or the theology of Bob Jones University (my uncle is a BJU graduate, and all my cousins on my mom's side attend).

Roman Catholicism says that salvation is a matter of us cooperating with grace (synergism) and most Evangelicals and Fundamentalists say that we must act and say our "yes" to God's grace (synergism). At the end of the day, is there really that much of a difference?

Grace alone through faith alone involves nothing from us, not even a willful "yes"; indeed we can't even offer a "yes". This is the teaching the sparked the Reformation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[christianmomof3]

I agree but do you believe that you are making the conscience choice to care for one another or is it done automatically for us?

Yes. I believe that when we take Christ as our Head and allow Him to guide us, His will becomes our will and together we accomplish His will which we are one with.
So, which came first - our will or His will is not the question. Remember, Matthew 18:18 Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

 

[laconicstudent]

I wonder why the OP posted this thread and then didn't stick around for the discussion.

 

[boswd]

Yes. I believe that when we take Christ as our Head and allow Him to guide us, His will becomes our will and together we accomplish His will which we are one with.
So, which came first - our will or His will is not the question. Remember, Matthew 18:18 Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Again I ask is it done automatically or do you still have a choice.

let me put it this way. You walk out of a restaurant you see a homeless man, hungry, now do you make the conscience decision to give him your sandwich? Could you say no I'm sorry

 

[christianmomof3]

Again I ask is it done automatically or do you still have a choice.

let me put it this way. You walk out of a restaurant you see a homeless man, hungry, now do you make the conscience decision to give him your sandwich? Could you say no I'm sorry

You walk out of a restaurant and see a homeless man. I guess it must be a fast food restaurant if you are carrying a sandwich. I am not sure how you would know if he was hungry or not, but you would make the conscious decision to pray for him and you would pray right then and then, if the Lord leads you to give that man your sandwich, you offer it to him. If the Lord does not lead you to give the man your sandwich, then you do not.
The conscious decision is not whether or not to give the sandwich.
The conscious decision is to pray and ask the Lord what to do in the situation.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I plead with Catholics... the entire debate between us hinges upon salvation alone. Sure there are secondary matters, but this is the key thing...

You think it's evil that we preach salvation by faith alone, but that's what is biblical. When a person is saved they'll produce good works, but you don't do good works to become saved.

Infant baptism isn't needed for salvation, God has to open the heart first, and after you're saved, you must be baptized only to show you're faith.

Please reject the false doctrines of Roman Catholicism, look to the Lord alone to save you, and be saved, then reach out to those that are still holding to the false doctrines.

Luther wasn't an apostle, so why do you accept his doctrines?

The Catholic Church teaches that only God can save a person.

 

[boswd]

You walk out of a restaurant and see a homeless man. I guess it must be a fast food restaurant if you are carrying a sandwich. I am not sure how you would know if he was hungry or not, but you would make the conscious decision to pray for him and you would pray right then and then, if the Lord leads you to give that man your sandwich, you offer it to him. If the Lord does not lead you to give the man your sandwich, then you do not.
The conscious decision is not whether or not to give the sandwich.
The conscious decision is to pray and ask the Lord what to do in the situation.

so if you see a fellow human suffering you have to stop and pray to see if the Lord wants you to help him?

I don't think that is what the Lord wants from us. He want's us to live a rightous life to make the right decisions to take everything he taught us and to live it. So when we are out in the world we are making the right choices.
if your child grows up and he is now a young adult, you want him to make the wise decisions. You don't want your child calling you "Mom, dishes are piled to the ceiling, what should I do? Mom my rent is due, should I pay it?

We take what the Lord has brought to us and to live it. You give that suffering man a helping hand without hesitation

 

[ivebeenshown]

so if you see a fellow human suffering you have to stop and pray to see if the Lord wants you to help him?

I don't think that is what the Lord wants from us. He want's us to live a rightous life to make the right decisions to take everything he taught us and to live it. So when we are out in the world we are making the right choices.
if your child grows up and he is now a young adult, you want him to make the wise decisions. You don't want your child calling you "Mom, dishes are piled to the ceiling, what should I do? Mom my rent is due, should I pay it?

We take what the Lord has brought to us and to live it. You give that suffering man a helping hand without hesitation

I agree, we should pray to the Father, in secret, for forgiveness and guidance and strength... and then get out of the closet and take out spiritual gifts and share them.

 

[christianmomof3]

so if you see a fellow human suffering you have to stop and pray to see if the Lord wants you to help him?

I don't think that is what the Lord wants from us. He want's us to live a rightous life to make the right decisions to take everything he taught us and to live it. So when we are out in the world we are making the right choices.
if your child grows up and he is now a young adult, you want him to make the wise decisions. You don't want your child calling you "Mom, dishes are piled to the ceiling, what should I do? Mom my rent is due, should I pay it?

We take what the Lord has brought to us and to live it. You give that suffering man a helping hand.

It only takes a moment to pray.

And we can pray while doing anything and everything.

And yes, I think the Lord does want us to stop (or not stop if not possible in the situation) and pray to Him before doing anything.
1 Thes. 5:16-18 Always rejoice. Unceasingly pray. In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
What the Lord brought to us is Himself as our life and He wants us to take Him as our life and our life-supply and to turn to Him in everything we do.
He does not want us to learn how to behave and then to behave independantly from Him.
That is the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it is the wrong tree.
He wants us to take from the tree of life - the Lord Himself as our life guiding us in everything we do.

 

[christianmomof3]

I agree, we should pray to the Father, in secret, for forgiveness and guidance and strength... and then get out of the closet and take out spiritual gifts and share them.

you don't have to go into a closet to pray you know
you can pray everywhere

 

[Gyasi]

This is sort of a general statement but I think it's fair enough to say that faith without works is a dead faith, kind of like what's written in scripture.

James 2:20

"20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

If having faith in God doesn't bring about good works from you, then do you really even believe in God at all? Having faith in God and believing in scripture should cause you to do good works. This is what the Church teaches, and has taught for centuries.

 

[christianmomof3]

You give that suffering man a helping hand without hesitation

We do not always know the Lord's will.
Have you ever prayed for someone and wanted to pray one thing, but the Lord caused you to pray differently?
Have you ever prayed for someone who was terminally ill and you wanted to pray for healing but instead the Lord lead you to pray for comfort for the ill person and their family?
Have you ever thought something was the right thing to do but you prayed about it and the Lord lead you not to do it and later you found out that what you thought was a good thing would not have been good in that situation?

The Lord wants us to turn to Him and pray to Him for guidance in everything that we do.

He does not want us to act independantly and become our own little gods deciding what is right and what is wrong.

Yes, on the surface, it seems best to hand a sandwich to a homeless man. But, I am a very small woman and perhaps that might be a man with bad intentions and when I reach out my hand to him with the sandwich in it, he could grab my arm and drag me off somewhere.
When we act on our own, things that can seem "right" or "the best thing to do", may not be the Lord's will and may not be the best thing to do.
But when we pray, the Lord may lead us to hand a sandwich to someone who does not even look hungry, but he is and only the Lord knew he really needed that food right then.

 

[boswd]

It only takes a moment to pray.

And we can pray while doing anything and everything.

And yes, I think the Lord does want us to stop (or not stop if not possible in the situation) and pray to Him before doing anything.
1 Thes. 5:16-18 Always rejoice. Unceasingly pray. In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
What the Lord brought to us is Himself as our life and He wants us to take Him as our life and our life-supply and to turn to Him in everything we do.
He does not want us to learn how to behave and then to behave independantly from Him.
That is the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it is the wrong tree.
He wants us to take from the tree of life - the Lord Himself as our life guiding us in everything we do.

I agree about always praying but I guess I look at it different. When I have done this, and I have. I see alot of suffering people on the streets in downtown Boston. After i give that person a water and a sandwich, I pray to the Lord to look after him and bless him that he may find help in a much larger way than I can give. I pray for that person.

and just to make it clear that when I do these types of good works, I don't have this " Hey Lord look at me, I'm doing Good". I'm doing it because that it was my heart tells me to do. I do it because i know the Lord is guiding me, but at the same time allowing to to do it and not doing my homework for me. so to speak.

 

[christianmomof3]

This is sort of a general statement but I think it's fair enough to say that faith without works is a dead faith, kind of like what's written in scripture.

James 2:20

"20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

If having faith in God doesn't bring about good works from you, then do you really even believe in God at all? Having faith in God and believing in scripture should cause you to do good works. This is what the Church teaches, and has taught for centuries.

When we take Christ as our head, He will guide us to do "works".
"Works" done on our own by our own decision and not the Lord's will only lead to situations like :
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power?
23 And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

 

[christianmomof3]

I agree about always praying but I guess I look at it different. When I have done this, and I have. I see alot of suffering people on the streets in downtown Boston. After i give that person a water and as sandwich, I pray to the Lord to look after him and bless him that he may find help in a much larger way than I can give. I pray for that person.

and just to make it clear that when I do these types of good works, I don't have this " Hey Lord look at me, I'm doing Good". I'm doing it because that it was my heart tells me to do. I do it because i know the Lord is guiding me, but at the same time allowing to to do it and not doing my homework for me. so to speak.

That is good. We should pray before we do something, while we are doing it and afterwards as well. We should pray unceasingly.