Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[yeshuasavedme]

And the fact that the physcially observable solar system doesn't operate the way that you expect, based on your interpretation of those passages, means nothing? Does the conflict upset your view of God?

If it tests your faith, I'll drop it. But I just want you to consider that your interpretation may be the issue, not the Word of God.

I do not interpret that which is plain and simple. The sun and moon rise and set, never resting, from the 4th day of creation week to eternity, running their course in their ordained paths/highways, as the stars do also, in the heavens which revolve around the earth in a 24 hour period -except for the stars that never set.

1 Enoch 75:
8And I saw chariots in the heaven, running in the world, above those portals in which revolve the stars that never set. 9And one is larger than all the rest, and it is that that makes its course through the entire world.

NASA launches all spacecraft using geocentric data.
The universe was shown to Enoch, and all the ordinances of the heavenly bodies, and he gave the science of the orbits of the sun and moon and stars.

75 And the leaders of the heads of the thousands, who are placed over the whole creation and over all the stars, have also to do with the four intercalary days, being inseparable from their office, according to the reckoning of the year, and these render service on the four days which are not reckoned in the reckoning of the year. 2And owing to them men go wrong therein, for those luminaries truly render service on the world-stations, one in the first portal, one in the third portal of the heaven, one in the fourth portal, and one in the sixth portal, and the exactness of the year is accomplished through its separate three hundred and sixty-four stations.
3For the signs and the times and the years and the days the angel Uriel showed to me, whom the Lord of glory hath set for ever over all the luminaries of the heaven, in the heaven and in the world, that they should rule on the face of the heaven and be seen on the earth, and be leaders for the day and the night, i.e. the sun, moon, and stars, and all the ministering creatures which make their revolution in all the chariots of the heaven. 4In like manner twelve doors Uriel showed me, open in the circumference of the sun's chariot in the heaven, through which the rays of the sun break forth: and from them is warmth diffused over the earth, when they are opened at their appointed seasons. 5And for the winds and the spirit of the dew when they are opened, standing open in the heavens at the ends. 6As for the twelve portals in the heaven, at the ends of the earth, out of which go forth the sun, moon, and stars, and all the works of heaven in the east and in the west, 7there are many windows open to the left and right of them, and one window at its appointed season produces warmth, corresponding as these do to those doors from which the stars come forth according as He has commanded them, and wherein they set corresponding to their number.
8And I saw chariots in the heaven, running in the world, above those portals in which revolve the stars that never set.
9And one is larger than all the rest, and it is that that makes its course through the entire world.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I do not interpret that which is plain and simple. The sun and moon rise and set, never resting, from the 4th day of creation week to eternity, running their course in their ordained paths/highways, as the stars do also, in the heavens which revolve around the earth in a 24 hour period -except for the stars that never set.

Written from the perspective of sitting on the Earth, watching the heavens roll overhead. It does give the impression that we are the center. We've already talked about this...

NASA launches all spacecraft using geocentric data.
The universe was shown to Enoch, and all the ordinances of the heavenly bodies, and he gave the science of the orbits of the sun and moon and stars

They use the Earth a refrence point because they are launching from it. Not because the think the Earth is the center. The make those calculations about the locations of the planets based on their astronomical understanding that the planets are orbiting the Sun. They shoot their "arrow" to the target to intercept where it will be at a certain in relation to its orbit.... around the Sun.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Now ask yourself why it makes the movements of the heavens immensely more difficult to understand... Could it be simply because the geocentric view of the universe is inaccurate?

When something appears to work in theory, but then doesn't actually pan out that way in real life, do we hold onto the failed theory or do we keep going on as if it is correct, even though it obviously isn't?

Listen, it is physically observable,

It is also physically observable from Pluto that Pluto could be at the center.

It is also physically observable that there could be no center of the universe.

It is also physically observable from earth that earth could be the center of the universe.

I choose to view the heavens as a single celestial system of an awesome complexity rather than the earth as part of just another solar system that's just a part of another galaxy that's just floating in a bunch of nothing, which happens to have life in it. I choose to view the center of the universe as earth, as it is valid. They will never reach the bottom of the bottomless pit that is explaining the cosmos with scientific theory.

 

[jonathan180iq]

It is also physically observable from Pluto that Pluto could be at the center.

It is also physically observable that there could be no center of the universe.

It is also physically observable from earth that earth could be the center of the universe.

I choose to view the heavens as a single celestial system of an awesome complexity rather than the earth as part of just another solar system that's just a part of another galaxy that's just floating in a bunch of nothing, which happens to have life in it. I choose to view the center of the universe as earth, as it is valid. They will never reach the bottom of the bottomless pit that is explaining the cosmos with scientific theory.

No. Sitting on Pluto would give you the perspective that Pluto was the center, but it wouldn't be true. Just like sitting on the Earth looking out gives the impression that the Earth is the center, even though it isn't true.

The Heavens are a single celestial system spread out through the entirity of the Universe and we happen to be a part of it. We are individual and uniquie because God placed us on this planet, just the right distance from the Sun to not be too hot and not too cold. He gave us water, to sustain life and a superheated and spinning core so that we would have magnetic protections from all the bad radiation that is flying through space and the bombardment of particles that are constantly pounding away at us from the Sun (which we orbit...)

You are free to choose your perspective as being the center of the universe, so long as you understand that it's factually inaccurate.

Why not alter that belief so that you are actually the center of the Universe and the world and people and buildings and cars and rooms just navigate and revolve around you, since, from your perspective, that's the way it apprears anyway. Using your model of the Heavens, it would totally valid to assume such.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The Heavens are a single celestial system spread out through the entirity of the Universe and we happen to be a part of it.

You are free to choose your perspective as being the center of the universe, so long as you understand that it's factually inaccurate.

Why not alter that belief so that you are actually the center of the Universe and the world and people and buildings and cars and rooms just navigate and revolve around you, since, from your perspective, that's the way it apprears anyway. Using your model of the Heavens, it would totally valid to assume such.

1. The bible says there is the heaven and the earth. I will take that to mean just that, I don't see anything incorrect about it.

2. It's not my personal perspective as the center, it's the general perspective of earth as compared to the heaven. I adopt that perspective into my beliefs, because mankind is given the earth, not the heavens. God didn't like it when Babylon got together to reach the heavens.

3. Once again, the heaven and the earth. Just because I view the earth as being the immovable center of the universe does not mean I want to think everything is about me. If you're being sarcastic about that that's just mean because that's not what I am saying at all. :o

 

[jonathan180iq]

1. The bible says there is the heaven and the earth. I will take that to mean just that, I don't see anything incorrect about it.

I don't understand what you are saying. That the Earth and everything else are totally separate? Then how it is possible for man to have ventured into space? How is it possible that we have little robots scattered over 3 independent celestial bodies taking photos and video and running some tests on soil make up?

2. It's not my personal perspective as the center, it's the general perspective of earth as compared to the heaven. I adopt that perspective into my beliefs, because mankind is given the earth, not the heavens. God didn't like it when Babylon got together to reach the heavens.

The first part of this is accurate. Sitting on the Earth gives the impression that everything revolves around us. Who doesn't say that the sun rises and sets? Everyone says that because that's what it looks like. Who said anything dominion over the heavens? Looking and observing is hardly dominion. And don't misconstrue the lesson of Babel. You're out of context here.

3. Once again, the heaven and the earth. Just because I view the earth as being the immovable center of the universe does not mean I want to think everything is about me. If you're being sarcastic about that that's just mean because that's not what I am saying at all. :o

But surely you realize that it makes just about as much sense. I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to show the fallacy of your interpretation. Remember, man: Does the Moon follow your car while driving or does it just seem that way?

 

[ivebeenshown]

I don't understand what you are saying. That the Earth and everything else are totally separate? Then how it is possible for man to have ventured into space? How is it possible that we have little robots scattered over 3 independent celestial bodies taking photos and video and running some tests on soil make up?

The earth is given to mankind to live and thrive on and the heavens were given to us for signs and seasons. They are separate according to their purpose, but not in separate realities or anything. Of course I feel that this is a very biblically sound distinction between the heaven and the earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

Not me...my life span on this planet is pretty short in relation to how old the planet and universe is. Eternal life is what I strive for.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Bravo, Lambo.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

Not me...my life span on this planet is pretty short in relation to how old the planet and universe is. Eternal life is what I strive for.

And after one is born again in Christ, they are to study to show themselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Also, there are those who concern themselves with the meat of the Word of God, and seek the understanding of the hidden things -just like Enoch reported them to be, before the flood.
Paul said this, to the corinthians, who were babes in Christ:

1Cr 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So to them, Paul came with the anointing of power, doing signs and wonders in the name of Jesus, so that their faith was not found based in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Then, however, Paul said this:

1Cr :6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cr 2:7 But we speak/teach wisdom, God in mystery, hidden , which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

So to go on, and learn the revelation of the hidden mystery -God the Word, revealed by Enoch [which is what Paul is speakiing of], leads us to the writing of Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, and in his writing we read the revealed ordinances of the heavens and the hosts of heaven.

But for those who do not want to go on, they may remain just babes, sucking milk, never learning the wonderful things hidden in the "Word"/Torah.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy Torah -Thy Word.
But as to the hidden mysteries revealed, God did not hide the age of the earth, nor the manner or order in which He created the earth -first- and then stretched out the heavens between the divided waters on day 2 of creation week.
He did not hide the fact that the heavens revolve around the earth, daily, and He did not hide the fact that the sun, moon, and stars revolve with and in the heavens, in their own peculiar paths, around the earth -except for the stars that never set, which Enoch the prophet saw.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The earth is given to mankind to live and thrive on and the heavens were given to us for signs and seasons. They are separate according to their purpose, but not in separate realities or anything. Of course I feel that this is a very biblically sound distinction between the heaven and the earth.

Well, the heavens are created by the stretching out of them between the divided waters of earth. Little Lamb should appreciate the fact that the Hebrew מים shamayim heavens, are מים mayim waters, in origin, elevated by the "ש" between the waters above and below them.

 

[solarwave]

It is also physically observable from Pluto that Pluto could be at the center.

It is also physically observable that there could be no center of the universe.

It is also physically observable from earth that earth could be the center of the universe.

I choose to view the heavens as a single celestial system of an awesome complexity rather than the earth as part of just another solar system that's just a part of another galaxy that's just floating in a bunch of nothing, which happens to have life in it. I choose to view the center of the universe as earth, as it is valid. They will never reach the bottom of the bottomless pit that is explaining the cosmos with scientific theory.

For darn sake think!!

You appear to know that the earth goes round the sun, you are just using loop holes to believe some messed up stuff.

The way you are believing is NOT orthodox in any way. Any of the great theologians of the past would not be saying what you are saying if they lived in this age. This is not a good way to reading the Bible.

It is a simple way of understanding it, but simple doesn't mean right. We are made in the image of God, God gave us reason, God gave us science, yet you give it up for blind faith. Christianity isn't about blind faith.

I am done with trying to be nice about saying this, you have forsaken you God given reason and it isn't good.

All this thinking does is drive a wedge between Christianity and what makes sense, and we should not be setting Christianity up as a belief in blind faith.

Please believe that the earth goes round the sun. Our place in the universe isn't what makes us who we are. Is the Sun of more value than humans? If not then size doesn't equal value. Would being at the centre of the earth make you more valuable? If not then why the fuss about our place in the physical universe? Our physical place makes no difference. The Bible is so much more than science book.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...
Please believe that the earth goes round the sun...

To believe that the earth goes around the sun is to call God a liar. You may not think you are doing so, but you are, for you do not believe Him when He tells us what He did.
Genesis 1 -earth created first -no heavens, no light, no dry [land].
Day 1 -light brought into being, revolving around the earth, making night and day =one Day

Day 2 -heavens stretched out in the middle of the divided waters, with half raised above the stretched out heavens, and half below.
Earth is the center.

Day 3 -waters below commanded to be gathered together in one place, called "seas" and the dry to appear. the dry earth was commanded to bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. -the earth brought them forth.

Day 4 -God commanded the lights to be, in the heavens, and God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night -the stars [also].

The heavens were stretched out from the earth itself. The earth is the center of creation, biblically speaking.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

 

[jonathan180iq]

....It's this kind of blind "reasoning" that makes certain aspects of Christianity the laughing stock of academia. How are you supposed to testify to the truthfulness/reliability of the Christian walk when you blatantly oppose what is factually obvious?

Long ago, in a Galaxy far far away, there was a time when Christian thought and reason pervaded all of the sciences.... It was the pinnacle of knowledge. Too bad it has dwindled to this; something so out of touch with reality simply to satisfy a flawed interpretation of Scripture.

 

[ivebeenshown]

For darn sake think!!

You appear to know that the earth goes round the sun, you are just using loop holes to believe some messed up stuff.

The way you are believing is NOT orthodox in any way. Any of the great theologians of the past would not be saying what you are saying if they lived in this age. This is not a good way to reading the Bible.

It is a simple way of understanding it, but simple doesn't mean right. We are made in the image of God, God gave us reason, God gave us science, yet you give it up for blind faith. Christianity isn't about blind faith.

I am done with trying to be nice about saying this, you have forsaken you God given reason and it isn't good.

All this thinking does is drive a wedge between Christianity and what makes sense, and we should not be setting Christianity up as a belief in blind faith.

Please believe that the earth goes round the sun. Our place in the universe isn't what makes us who we are. Is the Sun of more value than humans? If not then size doesn't equal value. Would being at the centre of the earth make you more valuable? If not then why the fuss about our place in the physical universe? Our physical place makes no difference. The Bible is so much more than science book.

My God-given reasoning abilities say that since a geocentric model cannot be disproved, I have every right to believe in the geocentric model.

It's not some big deal that I'm going to force onto anyone. I simply don't feel that the current mainstream scientific explanation of space makes sense, because they haven't (and won't) reach the bottom of it. After all, humans are the center of God's universe. Why shouldn't the earth be viewed as the center of the universe if it cannot be disproved? It's a view that includes every other human being, and it's not 'arrogant on a cosmic scale' because there are no aliens.

 

[solarwave]

To believe that the earth goes around the sun is to call God a liar. You may not think you are doing so, but you are, for you do not believe Him when He tells us what He did.
Genesis 1 -earth created first -no heavens, no light, no dry [land].
Day 1 -light brought into being, revolving around the earth, making night and day =one Day

Day 2 -heavens stretched out in the middle of the divided waters, with half raised above the stretched out heavens, and half below.
Earth is the center.

Day 3 -waters below commanded to be gathered together in one place, called "seas" and the dry to appear. the dry earth was commanded to bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. -the earth brought them forth.

Day 4 -God commanded the lights to be, in the heavens, and God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night -the stars [also].

The heavens were stretched out from the earth itself. The earth is the center of creation, biblically speaking.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Do you believe the earth is a sphere? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it is a circle (2D).

Do you believe the Earth is a circle? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it has four corners.

Stone people to death? No? :O PAGAN!! God has many laws in which He tells us to stone people.

Stone people to death? Yes? Son of the devil! You should be following in the footsteps of Christ who forgave.

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

-Believe Gods word, God is only ever literal, He has no creative mind!!

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

- Agree that slavery is ok? Great your in the Kingdom of God

So Gods word makes no sense, Woooooooooooo!!

 

[ivebeenshown]

Do you believe the earth is a sphere? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it is a circle (2D).

Do you believe the Earth is a circle? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it has four corners.

Stone people to death? No? :O PAGAN!! God has many laws in which He tells us to stone people.

Stone people to death? Yes? Son of the devil! You should be following in the footsteps of Christ who forgave.

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

-Believe Gods word, God is only ever literal, He has no creative mind!!

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

- Agree that slavery is ok? Great your in the Kingdom of God

So Gods word makes no sense, Woooooooooooo!!

Now you're just acting like a typical teenage forum-dwelling atheist...

Do you believe the earth is a sphere? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it is a circle (2D). Do you believe the Earth is a circle? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it has four corners.

I have already posted scripture-based logical arguments for both of these, and they exist for everything else you have posted as well.

 

[solarwave]

My God-given reasoning abilities say that since a geocentric model cannot be disproved, I have every right to believe in the geocentric model.

It's not some big deal that I'm going to force onto anyone. I simply don't feel that the current mainstream scientific explanation of space makes sense, because they haven't (and won't) reach the bottom of it. After all, humans are the center of God's universe. Why shouldn't the earth be viewed as the center of the universe if it cannot be disproved? It's a view that includes every other human being, and it's not 'arrogant on a cosmic scale' because there are no aliens.

You have the right to be a satanist, but that doesn't mean its a good idea by a long shot.

What do you mean by disproved? What would prove to you that the earth is not the centre?

It is somewhat arrogant still. It may involve other people, but it is a group that you find your value in, so raising the human race up also raises you up.

What if there are aliens?

 

[ivebeenshown]

What do you mean by disproved? What would prove to you that the earth is not the centre?

If General Relativity was disproved...

Do note that I don't see anywhere in the bible that it specifically says the earth is the center of the universe. In fact I think all four of those verses that talk about a 'firm' or 'unshakable' or likewise world are actually talking about the 'new heaven and new earth' that God creates after the judgment. I might have to check those out again.

So I am still intrigued if there actually was a verse that says in particular that the earth remains motionless.

And there are no aliens.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Do you believe the earth is a sphere? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it is a circle (2D).

Do you believe the Earth is a circle? If so you are calling God a liar because He says it has four corners.

I do not believe that you have read the Bible as a Christian [not saying you are not a Christian if you say you are, but that as a Christian, you have not read the Bible] at all, to make such claims as you made. You seem to rely on the sites of atheists and skeptics to make your statements from, so here is a refutation site for you, of the atheistic claims and skeptic claims that have been refuted so many times, on Christian boards, with so many Scriptures.


The Bible Teaches That the Heavens Were a Solid Dome, Embedded with Stars?


But I have answered the false claims you put up on my own thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7493818/ -besides, the topic is also covered on this thread, and for you to say what you said shows that you have "answered the matter before you heard it".
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him.

Your other claims have also been answered many times by Bible believing Christians, and you can go to the proper forums on this board to learn what the Bible actually teaches and to whom and why, on those off topic accusations -or you can just read the Bible for yourself, instead of letting others tell you what it does 'not" say, for you to gullibly swallow.