The Flat Earth Myth

[Agonaces of Susa]

I feel that this topic deserves it's own thread since The Flat Earth Myth strawman fallacy is a cornerstone of the Darwinist fairy tale.

... since we have a lamentable tendency to view our own age as best, these divisions often saddle the past with pejorative names while designating successively more modern epochs with words of light and progress." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"Our conventional divisions of Western history are mired in these twinned errors of false categorization and pejorative designation." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"I write this essay to point out that the most prominent of all scientific stories in this mode -- the supposed Dark and Medieval consensus for a flat earth -- is entirely mythological." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"Classical scholars, of course, had no doubt about the earth's sphericity." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"There was never a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how many uneducated people may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"Virtually all major scholars affirmed the earth's roundness." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

"Purveyors of the flat-earth myth could never deny this plain testimony of Bede, Bacon, Aquinas, and others -- so they argued that these men acted as rare beacons of light in pervasive darkness. But consider the absurdity of such a position. Who formed the orthodoxy representing the consensus of ignorance? Two pip-squeaks named Lactantius and Cosmas Indicopleustes? Bede, Bacon, Aquinas, and their ilk were not brave iconocalasts. They formed the establishment, and their convictions about the earth's roundness stood canonical, while Lactantius and colleagues remained entirely marginal." -- Stephen J. Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack, Late Birth of a Flat Earth, 1995

http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/lehre/SS05/efs/materials/FlatEarth.pdf

 

[Febble]

I feel that this topic deserves it's own thread since The Flat Earth Myth strawman fallacy is a cornerstone of the Darwinist fairy tale.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Thanks.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Thanks.

I refer you to the opening post that you obviously didn't read.

Perhaps contemporary Scripture can help clarify: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.

 

[AV1611VET]

I feel that this topic deserves it's own thread since The Flat Earth Myth strawman fallacy is a cornerstone of the Darwinist fairy tale.

This could all be true, bro; but think about this.

These Internet scientists here are not dwelling on those who believed the earth was a sphere.

They are dwelling on those who thought the earth was flat.

Then, by extension, they are attributing this to the Catholic Church and, by association, attributing it to the Scriptures.

Once they get this blamed on the Scriptures, then they can blame all denominations.

In their zeal to do this, they set up mental blocks that cause them to overlook a lot of stuff -- like dispensation theology, context and secular history.

This is why they can't understand why we're not marching off on crusades, putting witches on trial, and subjecting people to trial by ordeal (the Inquisition).

In addition, their [blocked] mentality says we're hypocrites for even typing on a computer or going to the doctor.

 

[Greg1234]

This could all be true, bro; but think about this.

These Internet scientists here are not dwelling on those who believed the earth was a sphere.

They are dwelling on those who thought the earth was flat.

Then, by extension, they are attributing this to the Catholic Church and, by association, attributing it to the Scriptures.

Once they get this blamed on the Scriptures, then they can blame all denominations.

In their zeal to do this, they set up mental blocks that cause them to overlook a lot of stuff -- like dispensation theology, context and secular history.

This is why they can't understand why we're not marching off on crusades, putting witches on trial, and subjecting people to trial by ordeal (the Inquisition).

In addition, their [blocked] mentality says we're hypocrites for even typing on a computer or going to the doctor.

They use it as evidence for Darwinism. They don't have a choice really. If one were to set a timer, and wait, there would be the count down before man met the stone wall that is the human body, the fact that it is designed and the limits of material inquiry along with the realization and implications that come with it. When you meet an insurmountable dead end, you reverse and go back. In the case of the atheist, he's past the middle ages and still regressing. It's a testament to what has been given, and should be expected by Christians. There's nowhere else for them to go.

 

[3sigma]

Then, by extension, they are attributing this to the Catholic Church and, by association, attributing it to the Scriptures.

You are confusing Flat-Earthism with Geocentrism. Christian theologians may have accepted that the Earth is spherical, probably because it is theologically irrelevant, but they were vehemently opposed to the notions that the Earth orbits the Sun or even rotates. They declared such notions to be contrary to scripture. It’s just another example of religious believers denying scientific knowledge when it shows their comforting beliefs are incorrect.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are confusing Flat-Earthism with Geocentrism.

Yes, indeed --

Thank you for the correction!

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

You are confusing Flat-Earthism with Geocentrism. Christian theologians may have accepted that the Earth is spherical, probably because it is theologically irrelevant, but they were vehemently opposed to the notions that the Earth orbits the Sun or even rotates. They declared such notions to be contrary to scripture. It’s just another example of religious believers denying scientific knowledge when it shows their comforting beliefs are incorrect.

That's absurd.

It was mathematicians, geometers, scientists, and astronomers who were opposed to heliocentrism because of Ptolemy's Almagest and the prediction of eclipses.

Nothing to do with the Bible and Christians whatsoever.

However, even heliocentrism and the rotation of the Earth were known in ancient times.

"And he [Methuselah] was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on the earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything." -- Jubilees 4:21-22

"... then yonder sun strings these worlds to himself on a thread. Now that thread is the same as the [solar] wind; and that wind is the same as this Vikarnî: thus when he lays down the latter, then yonder sun strings to himself these worlds on a thread." -- Yajnavalkya, gymnosophist, Satapatha Brahmana, 1st millenium B.C.

"Most people -- all, in fact, who regard the whole heaven as finite -- say it [the Earth] lies at the centre. But the Italian philosophers known as Pythagoreans take the contrary view. At the centre, they say, is fire, and the earth is one of the [wandering] stars, creating night and day by its circular motion about the centre." -- Aristotle, philosopher, On The Heavens, Book II, 350 B.C.

"Does the earth move like the sun, moon, and five planets, which for their motions he calls organs or instruments of time? Or is the earth fixed to the axis of the universe; yet not so built as to remain immovable, but to turn and wheel about, as Aristarchus and Seleucus have shown since; Aristarchus only supposing it, Seleucus positively asserting it? Theophrastus writes how that Plato, when he grew old, repented him that he had placed the earth in the middle of the universe, which was not its place." -- Plutarch, historian, Platonic Questions, VIII, 1st century

"[The Earth] is best fitted for that motion, with which, as will appear hereafter, is continually turning round...." -- Pliny the Elder, historian, Natural History, Book II, Chapter 2, 77

"The rising and the setting sun clearly prove, that this globe is carried round in the space of twenty-four hours, in an eternal and never-ceasing circuit, and with incredible swiftness." -- Pliny the Elder, historian, Natural History, Book II, Chapter 3, 77

"... the midmost gate opposite the Dawn he dedicated to fiery Helios, since he is in the middle of the planets." -- Nonnus, poet, Dionysiaca, Book V, 5th century

"... Pythagoras, on account of its immense force of attraction, said that the Sun was a prison of Zeus [Jupiter]...." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1690

"This [heliocentrism] was the philosophy taught of old by Philolaus, Aristarchus of Samos, Plato in his riper years, the whole sect of Pythagoreans, and that wisest king of the Romans, Numa Pompilius." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1694

 

[Inept]

Nothing to do with the Bible and Christians whatsoever.

Does the name Galileo ring any bells?

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Does the name Galileo ring any bells?

FYI: Galileo was a Christian...

Does the name Ptolemy ring any bells?

 

[Inept]

FYI: Galileo was a Christian...

Does the name Ptolemy ring any bells?

What does Galileo's religion have do with this? His religion didn't stop the Catholic Church from torturing him for publicly promoting Heliocentrism.

 

[AV1611VET]

What does Galileo's religion have do with this? His religion didn't stop the Catholic Church from torturing him for publicly promoting Heliocentrism.

Galileo was not tortured -- he was placed under house arrest.

The best thing that could happen to him, as he then was able to use the "time off" to further his studies.

God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Inept]

Galileo was not tortured -- he was placed under house arrest.

The best thing that could happen to him, as he then was able to use the "time off" to further his studies.

You are correct that he was placed under house arrest (for the remainder of his life might I add), but he was threatened with torture during the inquision. A fact that the Church has acknowledged and apologised for.

 

[3sigma]

Nothing to do with the Bible and Christians whatsoever.

From the sentence of Galileo:

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the above-mentioned Galileo, because of the things deduced in the trial and confessed by you as above, have rendered yourself according to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having held and believed a doctine which is false and contrary to the divine and Holy Scripture: that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west, and the earth moves and is not the center of the world, and that one may hold and defend as probable an opinion after it has been declared and defined contrary to Holy Scripture.

It is one of the innumerable examples of religious believers denying scientific knowledge when it shows their comforting beliefs are not true.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

What does Galileo's religion have do with this?

I'm guessing you will never know.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

It is one of the innumerable examples of religious believers denying scientific knowledge when it shows their comforting beliefs are not true.

The Holy Scripture they were referring to is the science, mathematics, and geometry of Ptolemy's Almagest because the Bible says the solar system is heliocentric.

"And he [Methuselah] was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on the earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything." -- Jubilees 4:21-22

 

[3sigma]

The Holy Scripture they were referring to is the science, mathematics, and geometry of Ptolemy's Almagest because the Bible says the solar system is heliocentric.

What a ludicrous misrepresentation. When one reads this:

And whereas this Holy Tribunal wanted remedy the disorder and the harm which derived from it and which was growing to the detriment of the Holy Faith, by order of His Holiness and the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Lord Cardinals of this Supreme and Universal Inquisition, the Assessor Theologians assessed the two propositions of the sun's stability and the earth's motions as follows:

That the sun is the center of the world and motionless is a proposition which is philosophically absurd and false, and formally heretical, for being explicitly contrary to Holy Scripture;

That the earth is neither the center of the world nor motionless but moves even with diurnal motion is philosophically equally absurd and false, and theologically at least erroneous in the Faith.

it is obvious that the Catholic Church was referring to the Bible as “Holy Scripture”. It was their “Holy Faith” that the Earth is the centre of the universe and does not move. Those were their religious beliefs regardless of whether you think you can contrive some interpretation of the Bible to suggest that it supports heliocentrism.

Besides, we don’t need to look any further than your own posts in these forums to see more examples of yet another religious believer denying scientific knowledge that shows his comforting religious beliefs are not true.

 

[Gracchus]

Now it is true that educated people of ancient times knew that the Earth was not flat. But, most people, including the rich and powerful did not know this. They weren't educated. But they did know that it made no sense for it to be round because people would fall off the bottom. "So there!"

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

What a ludicrous misrepresentation. When one reads this:

it is obvious that the Catholic Church was referring to the Bible as “Holy Scripture”. It was their “Holy Faith” that the Earth is the centre of the universe and does not move. Those were their religious beliefs regardless of whether you think you can contrive some interpretation of the Bible to suggest that it supports heliocentrism.

Besides, we don’t need to look any further than your own posts in these forums to see more examples of yet another religious believer denying scientific knowledge that shows his comforting religious beliefs are not true.

The Bible says the solar system is heliocentric.

"And he [Methuselah] was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on the earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything." -- Jubilees 4:21

Almost all ancient creationists had a heliocentric model.

"... then yonder sun strings these worlds to himself on a thread. Now that thread is the same as the [solar] wind; and that wind is the same as this Vikarnî: thus when he lays down the latter, then yonder sun strings to himself these worlds on a thread." -- Yajnavalkya, gymnosophist, Satapatha Brahmana, 1st millenium B.C.

"Most people -- all, in fact, who regard the whole heaven as finite -- say it [the Earth] lies at the centre. But the Italian philosophers known as Pythagoreans take the contrary view. At the centre, they say, is fire, and the earth is one of the [wandering] stars, creating night and day by its circular motion about the centre." -- Aristotle, philosopher, On The Heavens, Book II, 350 B.C.

"Does the earth move like the sun, moon, and five planets, which for their motions he calls organs or instruments of time? Or is the earth fixed to the axis of the universe; yet not so built as to remain immovable, but to turn and wheel about, as Aristarchus and Seleucus have shown since; Aristarchus only supposing it, Seleucus positively asserting it? Theophrastus writes how that Plato, when he grew old, repented him that he had placed the earth in the middle of the universe, which was not its place." -- Plutarch, historian, Platonic Questions, VIII, 1st century

"... the midmost gate opposite the Dawn he dedicated to fiery Helios, since he is in the middle of the planets." -- Nonnus, poet, Dionysiaca, Book V, 5th century

"... Pythagoras, on account of its immense force of attraction, said that the Sun was a prison of Zeus [Jupiter]...." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1690

"This [heliocentrism] was the philosophy taught of old by Philolaus, Aristarchus of Samos, Plato in his riper years, the whole sect of Pythagoreans, and that wisest king of the Romans, Numa Pompilius." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1694

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Thanks.

In this paper, Stephen J. Gould proves that the Myth of the Flat Earth is driven by Darwinist motives and deception as Gould writes:

“As another interesting similarity, both men developed their basic model of science vs. theology in the context of a seminal and contemporary struggle all too easily viewed in this light – the battle for evolution, specifically for Darwin’s secular version based on natural selection.”

“It would not be an exaggeration to say that the Darwinian revolution directly triggered this influential nineteenth-century conceptualization of Western history as a war between two taxonomic categories labeled science and religion. White made an explicit connection in his statement about Agassiz (the founder of the museum where I now work, and a visiting lecturer at Cornell). Moreover, the first chapter of his book treats the battle over evolution, while the second begins with the flat-earth myth.”

“Draper wraps himself even more fully in the Darwinian mantle.”

Thus Stephen J. Gould proves that the Flat Earth Myth is driven and perpetuated by Darwinist motives and deception.