Why I Don't Believe In Atheism's Creation Myth

[rockaction]

No sir, you were not born evangelical. You were presumaly born in an evangelical family and raised that way, but you were not born evangelical.

I suck at the English language. I was born, then raised evangelical. Hah. But it's true that a lot of my identity from when I was young was attributed to faith...it's tough to shake.

No sir. He didn't make you. Some may claim that, the ones wxho claim there is a god. But as there is no god, he didn't make you.

Just playing out the scenario in Doveaman terms

 

[Son of the King]

I have not seen any way to fix the conundrum. That's one big reason why I became an atheist (I was born and raised evangelical).

It seems to me that you believe that since the implications are frightening, they must not be consistent with the God you believe in. But you can't just "believe away" the implications of what the Bible claims and keep it in tact.

In actual fact it seems you have the conundrum, not I. It is not diffucult for me or confusing. I have a peace in what I believe and perceive my God to be who is obviously a different god than the one you perceive. If you were rasied evangelical and are now athiest I can only assume you were never born of His Spirit. Because then you would know, you would not be the same. I was raised an athiest really. Never really witnessed to or told about God. Sure I had some thoughts, but they were fleeting and meaningless and did not amount to anything. But when I was 25 years old, right in the prime of my life (50 now) I had an encounter with my Creator. And now 25 years later had I not had continuos encounters with my God I would have given up along time ago, as you did. There are many questions I dont have answers for, but how can I reason away God after all He has shown and done for me. Near impossible I would say. I have made "my choice" and purposed in my heart to serve my Creator by submitting to the leading of His Spirit the best I can for the rest of my days here on earth. Really, the only fear I have is the thought of what my life would be like had I not surrendered it to God. The truth shall set you free. Who the Son has set free is free indeed. I thank my God daily and give the glory to Him for the life He has bestowed upon me. I would not exchange it for anything.

 

[MoonLancer]

You have not demonstrated how there is only one possible outcome. You simply claimed that God knows the outcome. How does knowing the outcome mean that there is only one possible outcome?

in order to proceed with this question i must ask one of you in return. When god created the universe and man did he know at that moment who would go to heaven and who would go to hell?

We are confusing ourselves with the world outcome.

In the world only a single outcome manifests in our reality. Does god know which outcome manifests.

You would expect an omniscient God to know all possible outcomes. Does this mean all possible outcomes are determined?

are you suggesting a multiple effects to a single cause? Please clarify. Are you talking about parallel worlds? Or are you simply saying god understand the probability of all possible outcomes.

 

[MoonLancer]

Good question!

Let's say God didn't know the outcome -- would that change anything?

If God did not know the actual outcome that would manifest in the future, it would simply be unknown if free will exists or if its possible to choose from A or B and have that outcome manifest without restriction.

However God knowing these outcomes before they occur demonstrates that fate exists and and all outcomes are predestined.

 

[MoonLancer]

If God didn't know the outcome there would still be one outcome.

explain in more detail. use examples

 

[Tomatoman]

Son Of the King

In actual fact it seems you have the conundrum, not I. It is not diffucult for me or confusing. I have a peace in what I believe and perceive my God to be who is obviously a different god than the one you perceive. If you were rasied evangelical and are now athiest I can only assume you were never born of His Spirit. Because then you would know, you would not be the same. I was raised an athiest really. Never really witnessed to or told about God. Sure I had some thoughts, but they were fleeting and meaningless and did not amount to anything. But when I was 25 years old, right in the prime of my life (50 now) I had an encounter with my Creator. And now 25 years later had I not had continuos encounters with my God I would have given up along time ago, as you did. There are many questions I dont have answers for, but how can I reason away God after all He has shown and done for me. Near impossible I would say. I have made "my choice" and purposed in my heart to serve my Creator by submitting to the leading of His Spirit the best I can for the rest of my days here on earth. Really, the only fear I have is the thought of what my life would be like had I not surrendered it to God. The truth shall set you free. Who the Son has set free is free indeed. I thank my God daily and give the glory to Him for the life He has bestowed upon me. I would not exchange it for anything.

Another example of someone with an invisible friend.

 

[AV1611VET]

If God did not know the actual outcome that would manifest in the future, it would simply be unknown if free will exists or if its possible to choose from A or B and have that outcome manifest without restriction.

However God knowing these outcomes before they occur demonstrates that fate exists and and all outcomes are predestined.

It's a simple YES or NO question, MoonLancer -- it's not an essay question.

 

[AV1611VET]

explain in more detail. use examples

Okay, I'll try.

I go up to a pop machine and insert a dollar bill.

Now, I can choose a COKE or a MT DEW.

1. If God knows I'm going to pick a COKE, do I have a choice?

2. If God doesn't know what I'm going to pick, do I have a choice?

 

[rockaction]

In actual fact it seems you have the conundrum, not I. It is not diffucult for me or confusing. I have a peace in what I believe and perceive my God to be who is obviously a different god than the one you perceive. If you were rasied evangelical and are now athiest I can only assume you were never born of His Spirit. Because then you would know, you would not be the same. I was raised an athiest really. Never really witnessed to or told about God. Sure I had some thoughts, but they were fleeting and meaningless and did not amount to anything...blah blah blah

Ah, I love this tactic! Whenever someone claims to have been a Christian but lost their faith, you guys put on your defenses. "Ah, you must not have been a real Christian! A real Christian wouldn't leave the faith!" Are you that insecure about your beliefs that you have to belittle me like that? You make a huge, sweeping judgment about me and my life? Do you know the circumstances that led me to be an atheist? I find it funny that you know nothing about me but claim to know everything about me.

 

[rockaction]

Okay, I'll try.

I go up to a pop machine and insert a dollar bill.

Now, I can choose a COKE or a MT DEW.

1. If God knows I'm going to pick a COKE, do I have a choice?

2. If God doesn't know what I'm going to pick, do I have a choice?

He answered your question already. But you were all like "don't explain your answers/write essays, just say yes or no".

If God knows you pick a Coke, you can only pick a Coke. You can have the illusion of free will if you like and think that you really want to pick Coke, but you can't pick Mt. Dew.

If God doesn't know what you're going to pick, it is unknown what you will pick. You may have free will, you may not.

But in the first scenario, you definitely don't. There's uncertainty in the second scenario because no one has measured it. For all we know, all of our decisions are predetermined by the electrical signals of our brains. Maybe we are robots. We will never really know. But we operate under the guise of free will, be it real or not. (Philosophers have been arguing this since antiquity, so don't expect a resolution in this stupid thread)

 

[AV1611VET]

If God knows you pick a Coke, you can only pick a Coke.

What if I know what I'm going to pick? then what?

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

What if I know what I'm going to pick? then what?

I don't think you're even bothering to read the answers before posting.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV:


I don't think you're even bothering to read the answers before posting.

Then, assuming you can find it, please link to where someone answered that question with a YES or NO.

(This is why I can't stand verbosity.)

 

[Tomatoman]

You can't be this stupid...



1. If God knows I'm going to pick a COKE, do I have a choice?

No.

2. If God doesn't know what I'm going to pick, do I have a choice?

Yes.


Happy now?

 

[AV1611VET]

You can't be this stupid...

Yes, I can.

1. If God knows I'm going to pick a COKE, do I have a choice?

No.

2. If God doesn't know what I'm going to pick, do I have a choice?

Yes.


Happy now?

No -- wrong post.

Try this one, Brainiac: 672 .

 

[Cabal]

Then, assuming you can find it, please link to where someone answered that question with a YES or NO.

(This is why I can't stand verbosity.)

Because not everything in life can be oversimplified to a yes/no question? I'm sure it's awfully convenient for you to try to, but there is no justification that such a simplfication reflects reality.

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

Try this one, Brainiac: 672 .

I thought that question was a joke. Do you really need to ask it after rockaction's last post?

That's why said I thought you'd stopped reading people's answers. Blimey.

Look, if god already knows what you're going to do it doesn't matter what is going on in your head, you'll do what god knows you're going to do. End of story.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because not everything in life can be oversimplified to a yes/no question? I'm sure it's awfully convenient for you to try to, but there is no justification that such a simplfication reflects reality.

Oh, wow.

I'm standing in front of a pop machine with the full-intention of purchasing a Coke, and you guys want to make a deep-thought experiment out of it?

 

[AV1611VET]

AV:


I thought that question was a joke. Do you really need to ask it after rockaction's last post?

That's why said I thought you'd stopped reading people's answers. Blimey.

Look, if god already knows what you're going to do it doesn't matter what is going on in your head, you'll do what god knows you're going to do. End of story.

Is that a YES or a NO?

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

Is that a YES or a NO?

It's a no. Even if you imagine that you do.