Tyndale and defying the Pope

[bbbbbbb]

bbbbbbb subscribes. Some of my ancestors followed in the steps of Tyndale and were driven out of England, rather than being strangled and burned at the stake.

 

[razeontherock]

Tyndale was then strangled and burnt at the stake in the prison yard, Oct. 6, 1536.....

So why'd they have to burn the guy strangling him, and how'd they get him to do so in the fire?

Guys you missed my joke. If Tyndale was "strangled and burnt" at the stake, whoever they got to strangle him must've been burned too.

Ebia wrote: "the Catholic Church is now committed to making scripture available to every Christian in their own language and teaching them to read it."

Aw c'mon - are we talking about the same RCC that teaches neither you nor I have the charisma to be able to understand the word of G-d anyway? Show me a RC that hasn't had that pounded into his head, PLEASE! I won't believe you til I thrust my hand into ... oh wait a minute

bbbbbbb - Good choice! Where'd y'alls move to?

 

[ebia]

Ebia wrote: "the Catholic Church is now committed to making scripture available to every Christian in their own language and teaching them to read it."

Aw c'mon -

Yep. From the horse's mouth so to speak - the Synod of Bishops in 2008 specifically talked about this as being an absolute priority. It's a reality in Catholic school RE classrooms. We talked about the importance of it in the units of teriary studies I'm doing through a Catholic Seminary. Our school has me regularly prsent on one of the week's readings and its taking other steps to improve the biblical literacy of the staff, ...

Actually changing the culture takes time in an institution of that size, but the committment is there at the top and the movement on the ground is in the right direction.

 

[bbbbbbb]

bbbbbbb - Good choice! Where'd y'alls move to?

They first went to the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1635 and helped found a town there. Later they moved to Connecticut after they became Baptists.

 

[MrPolo]

Aw c'mon - are we talking about the same RCC that teaches neither you nor I have the charisma to be able to understand the word of G-d anyway? Show me a RC that hasn't had that pounded into his head, PLEASE! I won't believe you til I thrust my hand into ... oh wait a minute

That's incorrect. An individual of the laity does not have the "guarantee" of interpreting Scripture infallibly. The Church does not teach that members of the laity can't understand Scripture. In fact, the laity is quite encouraged officially by an ecumenical council to study the Scripture along with the clergy:

The sacred synod also earnestly and especially urges all the Christian faithful, especially Religious, to learn by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures the "excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:8). "For ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ." Therefore, they should gladly put themselves in touch with the sacred text itself, whether it be through the liturgy, rich in the divine word, or through devotional reading, or through instructions suitable for the purpose and other aids which, in our time, with approval and active support of the shepherds of the Church, are commendably spread everywhere. And let them remember that prayer should accompany the reading of Sacred Scripture, so that God and man may talk together, for "we speak to Him when we pray; we hear Him when we read the divine saying." (Dei Verbum, #25)​

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Only if you lived during the time of Tyndale

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html

........Tyndale was arrested and imprisoned in the castle of Vilvoorden for over 500 days of horrible conditions.
He was tried for heresy and treason in a ridiculously unfair trial, and convicted.
Tyndale was then strangled and burnt at the stake in the prison yard, Oct. 6, 1536.....

http://www.christianforums.com/t6486531-9/#post41067049
That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.

As Fr. Father Forrest was burnt alive for refusing to denounce the headship and his obedience to Christ's vicegerent of his Holy Church (The Pope). As was St Thomas More and St John Fisher and Blessed Peter O'Higgins. You say there were many such Catholics martyred by Protestants.

The words of Blessed Peter O'Higgins:

"Knowing well that there were Catholics in the crowd, he said addressing them:- 'My brethren, God hath so willed that I should fall into the hands of our relentless persecutors. They have not been able, however, to convict me of any crime against the laws of the realm; but my religion is an abomination in their sight, and I am here to-day to protest, in the sight of God and man, that I am condemned for my faith.

For some time, I was in doubt as to the charge on which they would ground my condemnation; but, thanks to Heaven! It is no longer so, and I am about to suffer for my attachment to the Catholic faith. See you here the condition on which I might save my life. Apostasy is all they require but, before high Heaven I spurn their offers and, with my last breath, will glorify God for the honour He has done me in allowing me thus to suffer for His Name.'

Then, turning to the executioner, after having cast the Justices autograph to the crowd, he told him to perform his office, and the by-standers heard him returning thanks to God, even with his latest breath. Thus did iniqnity lie unto itself - thus did the martyr's constancy triumph."

---Blessed Peter O'Higgins, a martyr and Dominican priest; martyred in Naas, Ireland; these words were his reply before his death upon being asking to forsake the Catholic Faith of Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's incorrect. An individual of the laity does not have the "guarantee" of interpreting Scripture infallibly. The Church does not teach that members of the laity can't understand Scripture. In fact, the laity is quite encouraged officially by an ecumenical council to study the Scripture along with the clergy:

The sacred synod also earnestly and especially urges all the Christian faithful, especially Religious, to learn by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures the "excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:8). "For ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ." Therefore, they should gladly put themselves in touch with the sacred text itself, whether it be through the liturgy, rich in the divine word, or through devotional reading, or through instructions suitable for the purpose and other aids which, in our time, with approval and active support of the shepherds of the Church, are commendably spread everywhere. And let them remember that prayer should accompany the reading of Sacred Scripture, so that God and man may talk together, for "we speak to Him when we pray; we hear Him when we read the divine saying." (Dei Verbum, #25)​

As a side comment not intended to derail this thread, I find the Catholic use of the adjective, religious, to be quite perplexing. Do you know the etymology of the Catholic noun, Religious?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bbbbbbb subscribes. Some of my ancestors followed in the steps of Tyndale and were driven out of England, rather than being strangled and burned at the stake.

Were they also chanting this ?

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html

His last words were, "Lord, open the king of England's eyes."
This prayer was answered three years later, in the publication of King Henry VIII’s 1539 English “Great Bible”.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

T

Aw c'mon - are we talking about the same RCC that teaches neither you nor I have the charisma to be able to understand the word of G-d anyway? Show me a RC that hasn't had that pounded into his head, PLEASE! I won't believe you til I thrust my hand into ... oh wait a minute

bbbbbbb - Good choice! Where'd y'alls move to?

I have my good old Douay-Rheims Bible, an English Bible that pre-dates the KJV. Catholics were always encouraged to read and live by Holy Scriptures. My bible even has an encyclical from Pope Leo XIII on the reading of Holy Scripture in it. (Cf. PROVIDENTISSIMUS DEUS) It is merely that the final judge of Holy Scriptures' proper interpretation is the public interpretation of Christ's universal Church as a whole; not the "prophecy" of one's own private interpretation.

 

[heritage36]

Interesting topic. I heard a decent amount about tyndale lately. I was interested to hear that the King James Bible was formed using over 60% tyndales translations, which is strange for someone they rejected and killed. About him otherwise, I need to look into him more, but I hear that he rejects that we go to heaven or hell because it would defeat the purpose of so much of the Bible being about resurrection and us being resurrected eventually, and I agree with that actually. Like I said I want to look into him more, but what I know of him I like and agree with, though that is not much yet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting topic. I heard a decent amount about tyndale lately. I was interested to hear that the King James Bible was formed using over 60% tyndales translations, which is strange for someone they rejected and killed. About him otherwise, I need to look into him more, but I hear that he rejects that we go to heaven or hell because it would defeat the purpose of so much of the Bible being about resurrection and us being resurrected eventually, and I agree with that actually. Like I said I want to look into him more, but what I know of him I like and agree with, though that is not much yet.

Thank you for your post and interest in W. Tyndale.
I need to read the posts of the members who voted him as a "heretic"

Tyndale was a heretic

3 21.43%

For those interested, I do have a thread concerning King Henry and the Great Bible

http://www.christianforums.com/t7410829/
King Henry VIII and Great Bible question

 

[bbbbbbb]

Were they also chanting this ?

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html

His last words were, "Lord, open the king of England's eyes."
This prayer was answered three years later, in the publication of King Henry VIII’s 1539 English “Great Bible”.

I hope so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have my good old Douay-Rheims Bible, an English Bible that pre-dates the KJV. Catholics were always encouraged to read and live by Holy Scriptures. My bible even has an encyclical from Pope Leo XIII on the reading of Holy Scripture in it. (Cf. PROVIDENTISSIMUS DEUS) It is merely that the final judge of Holy Scriptures' proper interpretation is the public interpretation of Christ's universal Church as a whole; not the "prophecy" of one's own private interpretation.

You can view that translation on this site, along with other Bible versions and greek texts.

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

I find it a rather good translation, except perhaps where it followed the error of the KJVperVersion in translating the greek word #165 as "world"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923-14/#post52748967
Matthew 24

Douay-Rheims) Matthew 24:3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world?

Young) Matthew 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I hope so.

 

[MrPolo]

As a side comment not intended to derail this thread, I find the Catholic use of the adjective, religious, to be quite perplexing. Do you know the etymology of the Catholic noun, Religious?

Here is a history of the term "religion" from etymonline.com.

 

[ebia]

Interesting topic. I heard a decent amount about tyndale lately. I was interested to hear that the King James Bible was formed using over 60% tyndales translations, which is strange for someone they rejected and killed.

Um, the KJV wasn't put together by Catholics. Althought it uses a lot of his New Testament work, it actually discarded one of his basic principles - to express the biblical text in the most accessable English possible. Tyndale used the English of ordinary people, the KJV used the English of royal court and state affairs.

 

[heritage36]

I didn't actually say it was put together by catholics, just that they used a large portion if his translations. I actually have come to find out it is a great deal higher percentage than the 60 some percent I said before. You can definitely see that the KJV uses that royal type of language you describe.

 

[Mr Dave]

[deleted, just realised I mis-read the previous posts, and this had nothing to do with them]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I didn't actually say it was put together by catholics, just that they used a large portion if his translations. I actually have come to find out it is a great deal higher percentage than the 60 some percent I said before. You can definitely see that the KJV uses that royal type of language you describe.

That depends on whether one capitilizes "c/C/atholic or not

http://www.christianforums.com/t7368885-21/

*The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

 

[Mr Dave]

Interesting topic. I heard a decent amount about tyndale lately. I was interested to hear that the King James Bible was formed using over 60% tyndales translations, which is strange for someone they rejected and killed.

[Quoting from Diarmaid MacCulloch, A History of Christianity, 2009]

"Tyndale's biographer, David Daniell, has bluntly pointed out that 'Nine-Tenths of the Authorized Version's New Testament is Tyndale's'"