What if Mary appeared to you? [MOVED TO MARIOLOGY]

[ProScribe]

[<.>]

 

[Chuck Finley]

Me personally, I would rebuke it in Jesus name!

I'm with you. I would rebuke the demon pretending to be Mary and go back about my business.

 

[jckstraw72]

i think the OP assumed its actually Mary appearing to you ... would you rebuke an angel as if it were a demon?

 

[Chuck Finley]

i think the OP assumed its actually Mary appearing to you ... would you rebuke an angel as if it were a demon?

Mary isn't an angel. If an angel appeared, although not the Biblical norm, there is at least a Biblical precedent for it, so I would judge the angel's message based on its adherence to Biblical truth.

Mary, on the other hand, was a human being and is now dead. As such, the Bible assures us that any being claiming to be Mary is not Mary, but a demon sent to deceive.

 

[jckstraw72]

Mary isn't an angel. If an angel appeared, although not the Biblical norm, there is at least a Biblical precedent for it, so I would judge the angel's message based on its adherence to Biblical truth.

Mary, on the other hand, was a human being and is now dead. As such, the Bible assures us that any being claiming to be Mary is not Mary, but a demon sent to deceive.

where does it do that?

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

I think we need just make sure that if Mary does show up (somehow) then we should be suspicious of it, however if it does say anything, check and make sure it lines up with Orthodoxy. If it lines up, then there should be no problem. Also as a side note if I am not mistaken, most Churches that believe in apparitions of the Theotokos, are non salvific, and you can completely ignore them if you like.

 

[Chuck Finley]

I think we need just make sure that if Mary does show up (somehow) then we should be suspicious of it, however if it does say anything, check and make sure it lines up with Orthodoxy. If it lines up, then there should be no problem.

While that is always the wise way to discern messages we receive from men, the problem in this case is that, whatever "her" message is, we already know that it isn't of God, simply by virtue of the fact that God isn't going to send a dead woman to give such a message when He has already given us His word and has given us countless men in the church to deliver His message.

I don't care if "Mary" shows up, sits down on a barstool and starts reading the book of Hebrews ver batem. It's still a demon.

 

[Dionysiou]

While that is always the wise way to discern messages we receive from men, the problem in this case is that, whatever "her" message is, we already know that it isn't of God, simply by virtue of the fact that God isn't going to send a dead woman to give such a message when He has already given us His word and has given us countless men in the church to deliver His message.

I don't care if "Mary" shows up, sits down on a barstool and starts reading the book of Hebrews ver batem. It's still a demon.

haha well if it happens be sure to record it.

 

[laconicstudent]

While that is always the wise way to discern messages we receive from men, the problem in this case is that, whatever "her" message is, we already know that it isn't of God, simply by virtue of the fact that God isn't going to send a dead woman to give such a message when He has already given us His word and has given us countless men in the church to deliver His message.

I don't care if "Mary" shows up, sits down on a barstool and starts reading the book of Hebrews ver batem. It's still a demon.

You ought to be very careful with telling God what he will and will not do.

As for me, I think it would be a great honor to see the Theotokos.

 

[Chuck Finley]

You ought to be very careful with telling God what he will and will not do.

I'm not telling God what He will and will not do. I'm stating to the people in this thread what God has already declared that He will and will not do.

As for me, I think it would be a great honor to see the Theotokos.

And if you're born again, then you will. But not in this lifetime.

 

[laconicstudent]

I'm not telling God what He will and will not do. I'm stating to the people in this thread what God has already declared that He will and will not do.

Really, you've got a verse in which God specifically stated that He will never allow the reposed Christians to appear before us?

And if you're born again, then you will. But not in this lifetime.

Except that plenty of people have.....

 

[Secundulus]

Mary isn't an angel. If an angel appeared, although not the Biblical norm, there is at least a Biblical precedent for it, so I would judge the angel's message based on its adherence to Biblical truth.

Mary, on the other hand, was a human being and is now dead. As such, the Bible assures us that any being claiming to be Mary is not Mary, but a demon sent to deceive.

Elijah and Moses must have been demons when Peter saw them at the Transfiguration.

I wonder why the Bible didn't tell us they were demons?

They must have been really powerful demons since they deceived even Jesus himself.

 

[jckstraw72]

well Elijah aint dead, but Moses sure musta been a demon!

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=laconicstudent;Really, you've got a verse in which God specifically stated that He will never allow the reposed Christians to appear before us?

quote=laconicstudent;Really, you've got a verse in which God specifically stated that He will never allow the reposed Christians to appear before us?

Really, you've got a verse in which God specifically stated that He will allow any of the reposed Christians to appear before any of us?

Except that plenty of people have.....

Then it must be OK.(?)

 

[laconicstudent]

Really, you've got a verse in which God specifically stated that He will allow any of the reposed Christians to appear before any of us?

Why would I need one? Reposed Christians have been appearing since the very beginning of the Church, Church history is littered, for example, with stories of the martyrs appearing and guiding others to recover their relics.

Then it must be OK.(?)

Well, it certainly wouldn't be happening against God's will, so yeah...

 

[Secundulus]

well Elijah aint dead, but Moses sure musta been a demon!

Well, Elijah must be dead because everybody knows that God will absolutely not rapture anyone other than born again protestants and he will not do that until seven years before he comes again.

Elijah fails in several counts, so he must be dead and sleeping somewhere in the grave and his apparation to Jesus at the transfiguration must have been really a demon.

A powerful demon though since he fooled even Jesus.

 

[laconicstudent]

A powerful demon though since he fooled even Jesus.

Probably Diablo.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I haven't read all 26 pages but I still will butt in to throw in my two cents.

It is good to be skeptical of apparitions, it doesn't matter whether it is an apparition of Our Lord or an Angel or Our Blessed Mother. Few times do demons actually appear to us in all their hideousness of spiritual deformity or we would never listen to them. Rather demons claim to be Jesus or Mary or an (good) angel or saint. Discernment of spirits in a full sense is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but in a general sense, it is something that we must all take steps to recognize and divide the good from bad, the light from the darkness.

I don't recall the story very well so I will probably butcher it. But there was a nun and she had a reoccurring vision of Jesus but wasn't sure whether to believe the vision or not. She went to her Mother Superior, who told her to repeat her vows for when she became a nun (or baptismal vows) before the apparition because satan hates obedience.

One of the first things that a bishop or superior will do in the case of a reported apparition is to forbid the person to speak about it. Satan hates obedience. This has proved more than a couple of modern apparitions to not be from God. False apparitions will put a focus on the visionary, true apparitions will always encourage devotion to God (even though devotion to the visionary comes along with it). Demonic "miracles" tend to be flashy and lack purpose or substance.

Really, when it comes down to it, we know if the message is from God if the message is godly. St. Thomas (IIRC) says that if someone listens to a demon who says what a good angel would say, then it is not wrong for him to have done so. If a demon, for whatever reason, says to pray more and hope and trust in God then it doesn't matter whether or not we can tell if the angel is a good or bad angel but rather we know that the message is good. When in doubt, this is when we go to our spiritual directors and those who are more qualified and dispassionate about these things to make that judgment call.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Mary isn't an angel. If an angel appeared, although not the Biblical norm, there is at least a Biblical precedent for it, so I would judge the angel's message based on its adherence to Biblical truth.

Mary, on the other hand, was a human being and is now dead. As such, the Bible assures us that any being claiming to be Mary is not Mary, but a demon sent to deceive.

This is what I would think, too. I would also think it was a demon sent to deceive.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Elijah is dead. Moses is dead. Mary, the mother of Jesus, is dead. All of the apostles are dead.

They are no longer alive on this earth, therefore, they are dead.