Who did away with the law?

[student ad x]

- MOD HAT ON -

It seems like a good point in this ermmm.... discussion to remind y'all to keep things moving forward by staying on point: "Who did away with the Law?" Lighthearted banter is allowed only to a point, be careful not to get into personal attacks of other members. Thread drift is allowed up to a point.

You guys know where the rules are.

edit: There have been some posts removed for rules violations. Posts made in response have been removed in the cleanup of the thread.

Carry on


- MOD HAT OFF -
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[YosemiteSam]

Your contention is that all unrighteousness isn't sin, you contend that sin doesn't also transgress the law, and you can't reconcile your limited definition of sin to state "sin was the transgression of the law" to include sin that existed before the law did.

All I have been saying is that sin (in order to be sin) transgresses a law. Law identifies what sin is. What have you been reading?

Naturally I disagree with your contention that mandates the application of the law before the time it existed, because it is an error that you repeat over and over like a broken record. We know from the Biblical record that sin originated in mankind with Adam, about 2500 years before the documented origin of the law mediated by Moses, which is "the" law your reference points to.

It is you who has determined "like a broken record" that sin exist where there is no law. Your use of Romans 5:13 is way short of what is recorded for our admonition.

Again, "Until the law", (till the law, up to the law, before the law), sin was in the world (sin here being imputed), for sin is not imputed where there is no law." (the last part speaks for itself.) Now verse 14 "Nevertheless, death (the penalty of sin) reign from Adam to Moses. (the time that Paul references in the first part of v13.) --- From there on Paul references the Mosaic Law. From v 12 through 15 he covers both the time before the law at Sinai and the time after.

In my post # 400, I was not interested in re-hashing Rom 5:13, I was interested only your what "you thought" to my other questions posted.

It doesn't matter your answer! It is just dialogue on the questions. Like sitting around a fire talking about a time long ago. Not arguing, who's right or who's wrong. Something like this:

"Well, I have thought about that before. And I am just not sure what law might have been imposed. There could have been a law, but I think the bible is vague on that point. NO, I don't think God, when he created man, revealed Himself to him. How do you say that it was Christ who gave the commandments at Sinai."

See?

 

[YosemiteSam]

So I see that you operate in the flesh and not the Spirit in faith believing. It takes no faith to obey the ten commandments.

Wow!!!!!

We are not law haters. We do have the law of Moses (includes the 10) in proper perspective. Oh in case you want to ask what the 10 means, it means the 10 commandments.


Would you explain how you have the 10 Commandments and that you keep them?

 

[VictorC]

It is you who has determined "like a broken record" that sin exist where there is no law. Your use of Romans 5:13 is way short of what is recorded for our admonition.

Again, "Until the law", (till the law, up to the law, before the law), sin was in the world (sin here being imputed), for sin is not imputed where there is no law." (the last part speaks for itself.) Now verse 14 "Nevertheless, death (the penalty of sin) reign from Adam to Moses. (the time that Paul references in the first part of v13.) --- From there on Paul references the Mosaic Law. From v 12 through 15 he covers both the time before the law at Sinai and the time after.

In my post # 400, I was not interested in re-hashing Rom 5:13, I was interested only your what "you thought" to my other questions posted.

It doesn't matter your answer! It is just dialogue on the questions. Like sitting around a fire talking about a time long ago. Not arguing, who's right or who's wrong. Something like this:

"Well, I have thought about that before. And I am just not sure what law might have been imposed. There could have been a law, but I think the bible is vague on that point. NO, I don't think God, when he created man, revealed Himself to him. How do you say that it was Christ who gave the commandments at Sinai."

See?

I didn't make it to any questions contained in your post, because of my reaction of your repeated appeal to the limited definition you're using for sin. Consistent in the manner that you impose this rule of yours onto the Biblical record, there is no means by which you can claim that sin existed before Moses, as that was the first time the law existed by which sin could be a transgression of. The alternative you introduced is to admit that the Biblical record accurately shows sin existed before the law, but it had to transgress some legal code in order to exist. It does not.

Sin did not originate by a transgression of the law. Adam was guilty of transgression of a specific commandment, recorded in Genesis 2:17, and that is the only record of imputed sin we have available to us before the law.

Is the black bold your question? I don't think the Bible is vague on the origin of the law. Adam and Eve had a personal relationship with God, as did Enoch, and so of course God revealed Himself to them. And of course it was the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ Who gave the covenant at Mount Sinai. As the law's Creator, He has the right to grant His adopted children the same sovereignty over the created law He enjoys, as He taught Peter about in Matthew 17:24-26.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Amazing! How is she violating the law by marring another? The husband (law) is dead! You can say that the COI did not marry the law all you want. It has no effect on the illustration Paul uses. The illustration does not need to be based on historical facts to be vaild. That is not a purpose of an illustration.

I only hope that Rabbit explained to you that the husband was not the law but "sin"

 

[YosemiteSam]

i don't have to, you're doing fine by yourself!

John,
Ouch!, control yourself. Patience!

 

[YosemiteSam]

All that was just a small part of the text though wasn't it?

He opened 7 with realeased from letter..dying to the law...Then went back over the dynamics of the law..only to realize life in the Spirit as per chapter 8.

Prooftexting is a common error nowadays.

Do you now understand this verse? See what he means?..In other words he is not under the law system anymore, or he would be all bound up in legalism, like he called his FORMER LIFE..in Phil.

Yes, he would be bound up in legalism, thats why Paul said, "I serve the law of God."

 

[YosemiteSam]

Truth that many people dont recognized is.....The catholic church had establish the 10 commandment as the law for christianity for 1500yrs. Then claiming to change saturday to sunday to claim keeping the sabbath commandment, and having authority to change the law.

Truth is, Christians began worshipping not sabbathkeeping.


Matt 5 show the beginning of Christ ministery to the Jews. Christ words meant that not one comma will change from the books of Law or the prophets scripture. Why would God change what He said would happen through the mouths of prophets?

Truth is....Change of the law was already written into the Law and the prophets.

98cwitr, Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Dude....

We post the scripture that we follow as doctrines. You post statements or selected text that are taken out of context.
Why do you expect your comment to overshaddow the scriptures you often contradict?

So what you meant to say, "We post the scripture, that we hope we understand, and that, understood or not, we follow as doctrines."

Then to the other, " Why do you expect your comment, that we think, overshadows, our thinking of the scriptures, yours and ours contradicts?'

Duh!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Dont tell me, the ten commandments right??
That not gospel friend, that's flim flam.

So what you mean is, "oh, the ten commandments, right?"

Not sure I agree with you, although, it might be a good point. It contradicts what I think. Nice talking to you though.

 

[YosemiteSam]

John, you forgot to mention that verse 25 also shows Paul serving the law of sin. Misrepresenting a passage of Scripture by omission as you do is promoting a lie.

Do you serve the law of sin and the law of God?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Me too!

Oh look, twins!

 

[VictorC]

edit: There have been some posts removed for rules violations. Posts made in response have been removed in the cleanup of the thread.

Technical question: Does the removal of posts change the post numbers that follow the ones removed? This is something I wondered about, as some of the participants refer to post numbers rather than quoting the material they want to refer to.

 

[VictorC]

Do you serve the law of sin and the law of God?

Why would I want to drag around a dead carcass with me?

 

[Pythons]

Jesus, Our Lord, slaughtered the Sabbath law along with the rest of the Jewish ceremonial laws...
...What remains in force is the Natural or Moral Law of God which is eternal.
...And is ( and has been ) in force eternally.

Victor is right, the ceremonial law was fulfilled by Christ and therefore slaughtered...
...The image Scripture casts of this is of a victor dragging the loosers body in a big show.
...Christ slaughtered the sabbath then desecrated it's corpus.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Why would I want to drag around a dead carcass with me?

So what was Paul doing here?

 

[VictorC]

So what was Paul doing here?

Acknowledging that he had violated the first covenant (which demanded compliance in the flesh), and probably rejoicing as he waved bye-bye to the dead first husband that held him in the past tense.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Jesus, Our Lord, slaughtered the Sabbath law along with the rest of the Jewish ceremonial laws...
...What remains in force is the Natural or Moral Law of God which is eternal.
...And is ( and has been ) in force eternally.

Victor is right, the ceremonial law was fulfilled by Christ and therefore slaughtered...
...The image Scripture casts of this is of a victor dragging the loosers body in a big show.
...Christ slaughtered the sabbath then desecrated it's corpus.

so the fact that God wrote the ten commandments, the only thing that God Himself wrote to mankind, means what to you?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Technical question: Does the removal of posts change the post numbers that follow the ones removed? This is something I wondered about, as some of the participants refer to post numbers rather than quoting the material they want to refer to.

If a post is removed it does affect the number

 

[bugkiller]

Do you serve the law of sin and the law of God?

If you observe the law, yes.

bugkiller