Jesus Loves You

[ephraimanesti]

It is a hollow claim, neither basic nor essential.

MY DEAR BROTHER,

i would certainly not call a sacrificial torturous death nailed to a cross out of Love for us "a hollow claim" nor, given the reality of the effects of that sacrifice, would i consider it "neither basic nor essential."

i understand that if you do not accept the foundational Truth of God's nature and reality, than nothing which follows from it has any meaning or reality to you--i'm just saying . . . .

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[b&wpac4]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

i would certainly not call a sacrificial torturous death nailed to a cross out of Love for us "a hollow claim" nor, given the reality of the effects of that sacrifice, would i consider it "neither basic nor essential."

If that's what it was for, why it happened, and did what is claimed. If not...

then it is a hollow claim.

 

[ephraimanesti]

If that's what it was for, why it happened, and did what is claimed. If not...

then it is a hollow claim.

MY BROTHER,

Given the millions upon millions of individuals over the last 2000 years who have trusted in our Lord's Word, and had His claims proven accurate and valid, thus demonstrating to themselves that this was so--how can the opinion of a minuscule percentage of nay-sayers invalidate the experiences of the vast majority, experiences occurring over an extended period of time, in a wide variety of different cultures, with identical results?

If 10 people are standing on a beach viewing a beautiful sunset and 9 of them are ecstatic at the beauty they see and 1 claims the sunset doesn't exist, why would you take the word of the "odd man out" over the other 9?

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[b&wpac4]

Given the millions upon millions of individuals over the last 2000 years who have trusted in our Lord's Word, and had His claims proven accurate and valid, thus demonstrating to themselves that this was so--how can the opinion of a minuscule percentage of nay-sayers invalidate the experiences of the vast majority, experiences occurring over an extended period of time, in a wide variety of different cultures, with identical results?

If 10 people are standing on a beach viewing a beautiful sunset and 9 of them are ecstatic at the beauty they see and 1 claims the sunset doesn't exist, why would you take the word of the "odd man out" over the other 9?

Argument from popularity only works if that means as soon as Islam eclipses Christianity (if it did), you would convert right away.

Would you?

 

[ephraimanesti]

Argument from popularity only works if that means as soon as Islam eclipses Christianity (if it did), you would convert right away.

Would you?

MY DEAR BROTHER,

It seems to me that we have had this conversation several times before. In any event, it is NOT about "popularity." Popularity has to do with tastes and preferences--as in voting for a President or a favorite flavor of ice cream.

Experiences of God, on the other hand, have to do with perceptions of reality--or lack thereof.

The Bible is a "road map" to God--i.e., follow directions and you will end up in the "arms" (spiritually speaking) of your Creator. A great many do so and are successful; a relatively few say they do so and yet come up empty. Who should you believe?

An analogy might be 10 people being given identical maps designed to get them from Seattle to San Diego. Two days latter, 9 individuals who followed the map roll into San Diego and 1 individual calls from Salt Lake City claiming to have followed the map and wanting to know where they are. Are you going to doubt the map or doubt the 1 individual who is lost?

"Popularity" has nothing to do with it. It is all about desire, willingness, honesty, openness, and humility.

Islam will never "eclipse" Christianity as darkness will never subdue light. If and when Islam numerically exceeds Christianity it will be because Moslems have been denied access to the Truth and threatened with death for even possessing a Bible--let alone acting upon it.

Note that the Koran is freely available in just about any bookstore in Christian countries, but a person puts their life on the line trying to access a Bible in Moslem countries. The powers that be in Islam know they are vainly attempting to protect a lie while Christians know that experientially speaking, they have nothing to fear from that lie. Follow directions, receive your own personal experiential knowledge, and the Truth will become self-evident and "popularity" proved irrelevant.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[b&wpac4]

An analogy might be 10 people being given identical maps designed to get them from Seattle to San Diego. Two days latter, 9 individuals who followed the map roll into San Diego and 1 individual calls from Salt Lake City claiming to have followed the map and wanting to know where they are. Are you going to doubt the map or doubt the 1 individual who is lost?

The problem is that you view your path, your destination as the absolute correct one, no wiggle room. What if the map wasn't to San Diego, but to Salt Lake City and most people just read it wrong? Would the 9 people still be right, just because they made it to one location?

Truth is truth. If I have it, it doesn't matter if I'm the only one.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The problem is that you view your path, your destination as the absolute correct one, no wiggle room. What if the map wasn't to San Diego, but to Salt Lake City and most people just read it wrong? Would the 9 people still be right, just because they made it to one location?

Truth is truth. If I have it, it doesn't matter if I'm the only one.

MY BROTHER,

Well, O.K. Going in circles gets me dizzy.

GOD'S PEACE TO YA!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

MY DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS,

i have been reading through some of the Threads in this Forum and have been struck with how meaningless, superficial, and silly all this arguing/debating/discussing/nitpicking/word dissecting/time-wasting prattling really is when compared with a simple statement of THE ultimate reality in the Universe:

JESUS LOVES YOU!
PERIOD. ​

From this overarching TRUTH flows another TRUTH,

"On a given day at a specific hour known only to the Father (see Matthew 24:36), Jesus Christ will return in glory.

"EVERY MAN AND WOMAN WHO HAS EVER DRAWN BREATH WILL BE APPRAISED, EVALUATED, AND MEASURED SOLELY IN TERMS OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CARPENTER FROM NAZARETH.

"This is the realm of the really REAL. This TRUTH is neither the product of a vivid imagination nor a comatose religious fantasy conjured up to satisfy an emotional need. The eschatological lordship of Jesus Christ and His primacy in the created order (see Ephesians 1:9-10) are at the very heart of the gospel proclamation. THIS IS REALITY."

--Brennan Manning from THE SIGNATURE OF JESUS​

You don't believe this/dont' accept this/don't care about this? God has given you freewill to make choices. The refusal of God's Love is a choice. Not one i would recommend, but nevertheless, one only you are entitled and empowered to make. Want to argue? What's the point? Your opinion and my opinion change nothing. God makes the rules and He has spoken. If you feel embolden to do so, you might try arguing with Him when the Time comes.

Christians are mandated and commanded to preach the Gospel--"in season and out of season." (II Timothy 4:2) We are not responsible for the result of our sharing of the TRUTH--acceptance or refusal to accept on the part of the hearer--only the TRUTH's faithful and accurate transmission:

"When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to disuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself." (Ezekiel 2:18-19)

So perhaps Christians would be better off simply stating God's TRUTH and consider that a job well done rather than getting sucked into these endless, circular, meaningless wranglings in which gnats are strained and camels swallowed--and nothing meaningful is accomplished vis-a-vis changing minds and saving souls.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Zoness]

Does Jesus love me if I don't join the Eastern Orthodox church? According to my research it practically takes more time to become a member of that than to become an American citizen

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Or an even better question: does Jesus love me if I don't join any sort of church, congregation, denomination and what-have-you, or even bother to study the Bible all the time as the primary reference point for everything, but instead just do my best to be a decent person, regretting my mistakes and shortcomings and working on my strengths?

 

[Eudaimonist]

If 10 people are standing on a beach viewing a beautiful sunset and 9 of them are ecstatic at the beauty they see and 1 claims the sunset doesn't exist, why would you take the word of the "odd man out" over the other 9?

That's not a terribly good example.

A better one is:

If 10 people are standing in the court of the Pharoah Akhenaten viewing a beautiful sunset and 9 of them are ecstatic at the beauty of the god Aten they see, and 1 claims the god Aten is merely a beautiful glowing ball of gas, why would you take the word of the "odd man out" over the other 9?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[SithDoughnut]

MY BROTHER,

So if "a few million deaths is a very big deal" to atheists, why are these crimes against humanity repeated--time after time--whenever and wherever atheists come into control of a country. The results are carbon copies--exact duplicates. i can accept a "fluke" or "anomaly" or two--especially twisted and sociopathic leaders perhaps. But the contempt for the value of human life seems part and parcel of a disbelief in God or in a lack of God-given sense of Love and concern for the welfare of others.

Except you're still wrong, using a few examples of dictators to try and tar all atheists with the same brush. Last time I checked, Australia isn't killing everyone, but they have an atheist prime minister. Crazy dictators are always going to want to get rid of religion, because religion is free thought. I would appreciate it if you stop trying to make me equal to Stalin.

Atheists, of course, have no such motivation and the idea of "the survival of the fittest" precludes it. How many hospitals, food/clothing banks, homeless shelters, orphanages, mental health asylums, rescue of unwanted children left exposed to die programs, etc. can you think of which have been started and manned by atheists? None that i am aware of. Lack of God = lack of sacrificial Love for others--with very very few exceptions. Alturistic actions on behalf of others is not an animal virtue--even for evolved animals such as atheists see themselves to be.

Oh look, more insults. I don't know the religions of people who own charities, but I know plenty of atheists who volunteer for them, myself included.

Also, read up on survival of the fittest because you don't appear to understand it. 'Fittest' does not necessarily mean strongest or cruelest.

These are not "lies about atheists"--they are mere observations on the effects of cutting oneself off from the source of Love has on peoples' views and interactions with each other.

No, they are outright lies, insults even. Prove that every atheist is cruel and heartless, or retract your claims.

 

[ephraimanesti]

That's not a terribly good example.

A better one is:

If 10 people are standing in the court of the Pharoah Akhenaten viewing a beautiful sunset and 9 of them are ecstatic at the beauty of the god Aten they see, and 1 claims the god Aten is merely a beautiful glowing ball of gas, why would you take the word of the "odd man out" over the other 9?


eudaimonia,

Mark

MY BROTHER,

God has been perceived in many different ways throughout history, given that our unaided human minds are incapable of perceiving Him and His Qualities without His revelation to us regarding His being.

Actually, Pharaoh Akhenaten was quite close to the Truth of some facets of God's person and existence.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

No one is saying that EVERY atheist is evil any more than it is claimed that every Christian is holy.

The point is that atheism--as the religion it is--brings out the worst in humans because it separates them from That which is the Best in them--the Image and Likeness of their Creator--and leaves them with only themselves to worship. Evolved animals make poor social leaders as history clearly shows.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[awitch]

--brings out the worst in humans because it separates them from That which is the Best in them--the Image and Likeness of their Creator--and leaves them with only themselves to worship.

So how are atheists different from any non-Christian in that respect?
Your claim sounds extremely petty.

 

[SithDoughnut]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

No one is saying that EVERY atheist is evil any more than it is claimed that every Christian is holy.

Yet you directly contradict yourself below:

The point is that atheism--as the religion it is--brings out the worst in humans because it separates them from That which is the Best in them--the Image and Likeness of their Creator--and leaves them with only themselves to worship.

Either all atheists are evil, or atheism does not bring out the worst in people. The worst in people is evil, so it's your choice: which option are you taking? Are all atheists evil or does atheism not bring out the worst?

I'll give you some help: leaving Christianity made me a better person. I worship nobody, especially not myself. Plenty of atheists are good people - if you think you need religion to be good then you epitomise everything I disliked about the Christian worldview.

Evolved animals make poor social leaders as history clearly shows.

History shows that some people are good leaders and some people are bad leaders. All people are the result of evolution, so history directly contradicts you there.

 

[Josiah14]

Does Jesus love me if I don't join the Eastern Orthodox church? According to my research it practically takes more time to become a member of that than to become an American citizen

Jesus Loves everyone. Our liturgical hymns say that "God does not desire the death of a sinner, but that he should return and live."

You don't join the Church to be justified, you join the Church because you realize you need God. Joining the Church is only the beginning of the process of Salvation, it is not Salvation itself. If you are outside the Church, the path is simply harder to find, but that does not mean that God loves you any less, and it doesnt mean you cannot be saved.

If anyone who is Eastern Orthodox thinks he is somehow special or favored by God because he is part of the Church, that person does not understand Eastern Orthodoxy. If you are really living out the Eastern Orthodox life, you will come to see yourself as the worst sinner of all (not just the worst sinner of those in the Church).

 

[He's Coming Soon]

Jesus Loves You

and forever ... love will prevail

Commandment
form a circle ... introduce yourselves in turn ... give thanks ... break bread ... moving clockwise ~ each in turn share story ... gratitude to The Host ... The NAME above every name ... the sponsor ... One who has the right to say "you're welcome" ... What do you say then?

turn to your brother on your left and ask, "what do you have need of?" ... now turn to your sister at your right and ask her, "what may I do to be of service or help?" do two things for someone to your left and right. then ask the two individuals at circle to repeat exercise in love.

everyone is blessed

repeat at will

​

 

[Colin]

MY DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS,

i have been reading through some of the Threads in this Forum and have been struck with how meaningless, superficial, and silly all this arguing/debating/discussing/nitpicking/word dissecting/time-wasting prattling really is when compared with a simple statement of THE ultimate reality in the Universe:

JESUS LOVES YOU!
PERIOD. ​

From this overarching TRUTH flows another TRUTH,

"On a given day at a specific hour known only to the Father (see Matthew 24:36), Jesus Christ will return in glory.

"EVERY MAN AND WOMAN WHO HAS EVER DRAWN BREATH WILL BE APPRAISED, EVALUATED, AND MEASURED SOLELY IN TERMS OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CARPENTER FROM NAZARETH.

"This is the realm of the really REAL. This TRUTH is neither the product of a vivid imagination nor a comatose religious fantasy conjured up to satisfy an emotional need. The eschatological lordship of Jesus Christ and His primacy in the created order (see Ephesians 1:9-10) are at the very heart of the gospel proclamation. THIS IS REALITY."

--Brennan Manning from THE SIGNATURE OF JESUS​

You don't believe this/dont' accept this/don't care about this? God has given you freewill to make choices. The refusal of God's Love is a choice. Not one i would recommend, but nevertheless, one only you are entitled and empowered to make. Want to argue? What's the point? Your opinion and my opinion change nothing. God makes the rules and He has spoken. If you feel embolden to do so, you might try arguing with Him when the Time comes.

Christians are mandated and commanded to preach the Gospel--"in season and out of season." (II Timothy 4:2) We are not responsible for the result of our sharing of the TRUTH--acceptance or refusal to accept on the part of the hearer--only the TRUTH's faithful and accurate transmission:

"When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to disuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself." (Ezekiel 2:18-19)

So perhaps Christians would be better off simply stating God's TRUTH and consider that a job well done rather than getting sucked into these endless, circular, meaningless wranglings in which gnats are strained and camels swallowed--and nothing meaningful is accomplished vis-a-vis changing minds and saving souls.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

AMEN. AMEN. AMEN .

 

[ephraimanesti]

Plenty of atheists are good people-

MY DEAR BROTHER,

"No one is "Good" but God alone." (Mark 10:18b)

if you think you need religion to be good then you epitomise everything I disliked about the Christian worldview.

You say that like it's a bad thing! It's unavoidable and to be expected.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim