Proposition 8 overturned in California

[BigBadWlf]

It has been my experience that American Christians who claim persecution have no clue as to what persecution is truly going on elsewhere in the world. We are fortunate in this country. Very fortunate.

T

QFT

 

[Gishin]

Most of my characters are on Cenarius Been playing SC2 lately anyway, but I suck royally.

My alliance characters are on Cenarius. You should add me on SC2, I can show you the ropes.

 

[BigBadWlf]

That's not the point. As Christians, we would want laws based on Christianity.

I don’t want laws based on Christianity. Such a system would be abusive to non-Christians and Christians who don’t share the conservatives point of view. Living in such a theocracy would be just like living in Iran (whose laws are fully based on a conservative interpretation of Islamic religion)

 

[tcampen]

The will of the people will not be ignored. This will go to the supreme court. America wasn't founded on same sex marriage. Plus, the polygamist and beastality candidates will complain now.

The U.S. is not a democracy, but a constitutional republic with certain individual rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Among those rights are equal protection under the law and due process. These are not absolute rights, and must be tempered against other things, including government interest. The Prop 8 ruling went through that specific analysis on both grounds and articulately explained why Prop 8 did not pass constitutional muster on both grounds.

This process and rule of law is EXACTLY what our country was founded on, even if you disagree with the result. We are a nation of laws, not men and the imposition of their personal religious bleliefs on others. No state referendum can pass a law that specifically violates those individual rights without passing constiutional muster - SO if there is something specific about the Court's legal reasoning with which you disagree, that would be the appropriate point to make. But to summarily object to the result without any apparent consideration of the legally reasoning used by the Court in forming that ruling seems about as far from the American way as one could imagine.

 

[SithDoughnut]

That's not the point. As Christians, we would want laws based on Christianity.

Which version of Christianity?

 

[pgp_protector]

Who are Hermaphrodite allowed to marry ?

 

[selfinflikted]

Most of my characters are on Cenarius Been playing SC2 lately anyway, but I suck royally.

My alliance characters are on Cenarius. You should add me on SC2, I can show you the ropes.

Are you guys all druids? (Cenarius = Dr00d in my mind).

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Which version of Christianity?

God's.

 

[Sojourner1]

It is a copout. It's as if I say, "Well, all you guys are abominations, and you are all going to burn for eternity in hell!" ..."Oh, I'm not saying that, I'm just quoting the Bible." It's a convenient way to absolve oneself from any blame, a convenient cover. It's an easy way to say hurtful things and promote bigotry, without looking guilty of such.

It's not a cop out. Never have I said that anyone was an abomination. The sexual act is an abomination, not the person. Anyone who denies Christ will spend eternity in hell. One sin is not greater than another sin.

 

[BigBadWlf]

You guys are totally missing the point and I can't help but think that you're being purposefully obtuse.

As a Christian, I'd rather have laws based on Christianity than secularism. As Christians, our actions should, first and foremost, be in line with God's laws, not man's laws.

What laws would you add or subtract from existing law to conform to your personal opinion of what God wants?

Man's law may well say homosexual marriage is okay, but God's laws do not.

I am relatively sure there is no biblical law stating thou shall not have same sex marriage...anything less plain than that leaves the translation open to personal opinion.

It should be noted that there are many who view interracial marriage as being against God’s law…would you outlaw interracial marriage? What about non-Christian marriages…shouldn’t they also be outlawed? as obviously they ignore God’s law

Man's law makes it okay to abort babies, but God's law does not.

Can you cite a chapter and verse for this?

Saying "this is not a Christian country so we shouldn't have Christian laws" basically smacks God in the face as though His laws don't matter and man's laws trump His.

I believe it is more saying that there are many Christians who would abuse such a legal system at the expense of those who dare to disagree with them

 

[Ar Cosc]

America wasn't founded on same sex marriage.

America wasn't founded on women's suffrage, or freedom for slaves either. Do you want to see those things revoked?

Plus, the polygamist and beastality candidates will complain now.

If pro-christian laws are enacted, it'll only be a matter of time before the US is an Islamic theocracy. (I can make misguided slippery slope arguments too!)

 

[SithDoughnut]

God's.

Which version of God's Christianity?

 

[Jase]

My alliance characters are on Cenarius. You should add me on SC2, I can show you the ropes.

Ah cool, my characters are alliance too. I'll look you up when I get back to SC2. I took a break out of frustration

 

[SithDoughnut]

God's.

Which version of God's Christianity? Does it conveniently happen to be the same version as yours, while being different to the version that millions of other Christians hold?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

*sigh*

You guys are still missing the point. I realize that we don't have Christian laws. I understand that there is separation of church and state. What I've been trying to say is that God never required that separation, man did. As Christians, we SHOULD strive to have Christian laws based on the Christian faith. To say that we should be happy with secular laws goes against what the bible says:

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I've shown that I don't care if homosexuals marry. You can call yourself married all you want - it doesn't mean that I'm going to consider you married or consider your marriage valid.

 

[Sojourner1]

I agree. But the issue regarding Prop 8 now is coming down to whether same-sex marriage should come down to a vote, or whether it is a Constitutionally-protected right. If the latter, then a vote is unnecessary.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

If that lets you live witha clear conscience, fine, but you're still the middle man. And saying that you're just letting God speak for himself isn't getting you off the hook anyway, because you are in agreement with him. You can't say "Hey Bob, I agree with what Joe says, and Joe says you're a jerk!" and not expect Bob to get just as upset at you as at Joe. Especially when Joe is nowhere to be seen.

Of course I'm in agreement with God. Would you expect any less from someone who professes to be a Christian?

 

[Jase]

Are you guys all druids? (Cenarius = Dr00d in my mind).

Heck no. Freakin treehugger class! Priest, Lock, and Mage are my main classes. Rogue was my original, but they are too twitchy.

 

[Belk]

*sigh*

You guys are still missing the point. I realize that we don't have Christian laws. I understand that there is separation of church and state. What I've been trying to say is that God never required that separation, man did. As Christians, we SHOULD strive to have Christian laws based on the Christian faith. To say that we should be happy with secular laws goes against what the bible says:

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I've shown that I don't care if homosexuals marry. You can call yourself married all you want - it doesn't mean that I'm going to consider you married or consider your marriage valid.

So you are saying all Christians should want a theocracy as this would allow you to live in a godly fashion?

 

[SithDoughnut]

*sigh*

You guys are still missing the point. I realize that we don't have Christian laws. I understand that there is separation of church and state. What I've been trying to say is that God never required that separation, man did. As Christians, we SHOULD strive to have Christian laws based on the Christian faith. To say that we should be happy with secular laws goes against what the bible says:

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I've shown that I don't care if homosexuals marry. You can call yourself married all you want - it doesn't mean that I'm going to consider you married or consider your marriage valid.

Does the Bible not also say that you should submit to governmental authority? Obviously, God's law would override this, but I don't recall any verse that states that you must restrict other people's freedoms. I believe the verses regarding homosexuality tell the reader what to do, not tell the reader what to force other people to do.

 

[Jase]

*sigh*

You guys are still missing the point. I realize that we don't have Christian laws. I understand that there is separation of church and state. What I've been trying to say is that God never required that separation, man did. As Christians, we SHOULD strive to have Christian laws based on the Christian faith.

Until you can prove which of the thousands of versions of Christianity is right, you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone why it would be best to strive for that. I would never want evangelical Christianity controlling the laws, just like you might not like Catholicism controlling them, and they might object to orthodox. The only tenent I think you could safely argue all Christians in this world agree on is that Jesus is the Messiah. And that statement alone does not a country make.

To say that we should be happy with secular laws goes against what the bible says:

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Supporting human rights does not mean one is "friends" with the world.

I've shown that I don't care if homosexuals marry. You can call yourself married all you want - it doesn't mean that I'm going to consider you married or consider your marriage valid.

Nobody needs your approval. Most of us don't believe your beliefs are correct, and many Christians don't believe God has a problem with gays.