Proposition 8 overturned in California

[Jase]

Really the only logical reason why gay mirage shouldn't exist is because is doesn't encourage procreation of the human race. But seeing how we are way overpopulated I take it as natures way of fixing it.

In a post Apocalypse though being gay is probably pretty selfish. For the moment though, go wild!

Here is the judge's argument on the procreation point.

" The court asked the parties to identify a difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals that the government might fairly need to take into account when crafting legislation. #677 at 8. Proponents pointed only to a difference between samesex couples (who are incapable through sexual intercourse of producing offspring biologically related to both parties) and opposite-sex couples (some of whom are capable through sexual intercourse of producing such offspring). Doc #687 at 32-34. Proponents did not, however, advance any reason why the government may use sexual orientation as a proxy for fertility or why the government may need to take into account fertility when legislating. Consider, by contrast, City of Cleburne v Cleburne Living Center, 473 US 432, 444 (1985) (Legislation singling out a class for differential treatment hinges upon a demonstration of “real and undeniable differences” between the class and others); see also United States v Virginia, 518 US 515, 533 (1996) (“Physical differences between men and women * * * are enduring.”). No evidence at trial illuminated distinctions among lesbians, gay men and heterosexuals amounting to “real and undeniable differences” that the government might need to take into account in legislating.

Proposition 8 cannot withstand any level of scrutiny under the Equal Protection Clause, as excluding same-sex couples from marriage is simply not rationally related to a legitimate state interest."

 

[foodiepeep]

I have no room to speak on marriage being that I initiated divorce from my spouse, but I was wondering if as Christians are we supposed to embrace and tolerate other lifestyles and beliefs?..what's the scriptual method of handing such things?

 

[Skaloop]

Just start another thread. And we can move on in this one talking about Prop 8.

I don't want a thread on it. I want to know what you think. The approximate age you give for the age of the universe will give me insight into your stance on same-sex marriage, and hence Prop 8. It's a simple question that you have so far refused to answer, derailing the thread far more than my asking the question in the first place. So just answer. It's a number. I'll even give you two approximate answers: is it closer to
(a) 6000 years, or
(b) 13,000,000,000 years?

Failure to provide your answer (either a or b) will be secret code for you to admit to being an active homosexual.

 

[pgp_protector]

I have no room to speak on marriage being that I initiated divorce from my spouse, but I was wondering if as Christians are we supposed to embrace and tolerate other lifestyles and beliefs?..what's the scriptual method of handing such things?

Embracing something isn't the same a tolerating something.

I'm taking it you tolerate the fact that some Don't worship the same way you do right ?

But you don't have to Go an Embrace it and worship their way.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Unfortunately, it's not over. It's being appealed so the ban is still in effect, and this will definitely go to the Supreme Court, who happens to be conservative. I'm worried about how they might vote.

As it is, my sentiment in the freedom of our nation remains, boosted at this point. I know well that the appeal is in process, surely it is already in most all likelihood. But, it is still a sign, hopefully, of what is to come. Of freedom and rights being granted to a group lacking in support to this point - at least support from the higher levels of government, anyway.

I think, given the increasingly liberal slant to social issues that our Supreme Court has shown in recent years, in sentiment and ruling, it is possible ,if not probable, to expect them to stay the current ruling if and when the case reaches that level. The only real reason I see it being an issue is if they feel the need to politicize the matter and stay a course of tradition in hopes of approval and backing/cooperation of some party (GOP, in specific) in coming terms.

 

[mpok1519]

It will be appealed, but that doesn't mean scotus will even take it for
consideration. The rule of thumb is this; if SCOTUS takes a case for consideration, they generally will overturn the original ruling. And fromte looks of it, there will be no overturning, nor even will scotus take the case for consideration to overturn.

So really it looks like this decision will be permanent.

USA! USA!

 

[laconicstudent]

I have no room to speak on marriage being that I initiated divorce from my spouse, but I was wondering if as Christians are we supposed to embrace and tolerate other lifestyles and beliefs?..what's the scriptual method of handing such things?

Who said anything about "embracing"? Why do we need to support their decisions in allowing them to have the same rights as everyone else in a secular society?

I personally disapprove, but I recognize that not everyone shares my personal morality, and refrain from trying to force it down the throat of every non-Christian in the United States.

 

[Jase]

It will be appealed, but that doesn't mean scotus will even take it for
consideration. The rule of thumb is this; if SCOTUS takes a case for consideration, they generally will overturn the original ruling. And fromte looks of it, there will be no overturning, nor even will scotus take the case for consideration to overturn.

So really it looks like this decision will be permanent.

USA! USA!

I find it hard to believe the SCOTUS wouldn't take such a landmark case. Especially since they set the precedent for interracial marriage. Just seems like no one will be happy with the rulings until the SCOTUS weighs in.

Of course, I can't think of any legal argument they would make that would stray from what this federal judge has stated. The anti-gay side has no valid argument.

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

Guys! I really need help. I'm straight married. Will this ruling cancel out my marriage? I heard that if gays can get married, it will ruin marriage for the rest of us. HELP! NEED AN ANSWER QUICK!

 

[laconicstudent]

Guys! I really need help. I'm straight married. Will this ruling cancel out my marriage? I heard that if gays can get married, it will ruin marriage for the rest of us. HELP! NEED AN ANSWER QUICK!

Yes, of course it will. How will you be able to sleep at night knowing that homosexuals also have the same tax benefits and visitation rights etc. etc. etc. as you?

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

Yes, of course it will. How will you be able to sleep at night knowing that homosexuals also have the same tax benefits and visitation rights etc. etc. etc. as you?

Marriage is kinda like Club 33 at Disneyland: If everyone can do it, there's nothing special about it. The whole point is to rub it in the faces of the people who aren't members.

 

[Skaloop]

Guys! I really need help. I'm straight married. Will this ruling cancel out my marriage? I heard that if gays can get married, it will ruin marriage for the rest of us. HELP! NEED AN ANSWER QUICK!

Yep, you're done for. Up here in Canada, my wife and I had to go on the down-low to keep our marriage intact. We can't be out in public and express our love; we can't even hint at it. We pretty much have to pretend that we're "just friends". It's really hard to pretend all the time, but it's not like we can just decide to be gay like everyone else. Also, we can't adopt children; we're forced to produce them on our own! We've heard about it, and while such illicit heterosexual acts are a blast at the time, the results of a pregnancy are punishment for such acts. At least, for my wife. But then it just gets worse when the kids get to school and are teased for having a mommy AND a daddy.

Yeah, I've been through it; I do not envy what you're about to experience.

 

[Belk]

You'll have to ask God that. He was there at the beginning, I wasn't. I can only tell ya approximately how old it is.

I'm just a poor agnostic. Can't you as a deliverer of Gods truth ask him and relay what he tells you? After all you must have his ear, yes?

 

[Maren]

Yep, you're done for. Up here in Canada, my wife and I had to go on the down-low to keep our marriage intact. We can't be out in public and express our love; we can't even hint at it. We pretty much have to pretend that we're "just friends". It's really hard to pretend all the time, but it's not like we can just decide to be gay like everyone else. Also, we can't adopt children; we're forced to produce them on our own! We've heard about it, and while such illicit heterosexual acts are a blast at the time, the results of a pregnancy are punishment for such acts. At least, for my wife. But then it just gets worse when the kids get to school and are teased for having a mommy AND a daddy.

Yeah, I've been through it; I do not envy what you're about to experience.

I actually saw a post on another forum today that said he believed this is exactly what gays were wanting to do.

Of course, on that same forum a conservative against gay marriage who is a lawyer and had actually read the decision. He commented that the decision was well written and correct based on the evidence presented, and that SCOTUS had no reason to overturn the ruling.

 

[OllieFranz]

Does anyone have a link to the full text of the ruling?

 

[Chyke4real]

Until you show me the verse where Jesus says "A man shall never cleave to another man", your argument is merely what you want to Bible to say, not what it does say.

Jesus Came not to destroy what has been , but to fulfill them. There is actually a verse in the bible which says that a man shall not have sexual relation with a man as he does with a woman ,for that is perversion.

Let your intuition guide you to doing what is right and morally acceptable. It's shameful seeing men and women jubilating at such a counter-productive judgement.

 

[laconicstudent]

It's shameful seeing men and women jubilating at such a counter-productive judgement.

In what way is it "Counter productive"?

 

[Skaloop]

Jesus Came not to destroy what has been , but to fulfill them. There is actually a verse in the bible which says that a man shall not have sexual relation with a man as he does with a woman ,for that is perversion.

But even if that verse means what you interpret it to mean, a man cannot physically have sexual relation with a man as he does with a woman, since a man does not have a vagina. So, it's impossible. Might as well say "A man shall eat a banana as one eats a peach". Makes no real sense; one has to peel a banana, one has to pit a peach, they are different shapes. They can't be eaten the same way anyway.

Let your intuition guide you to doing what is right and morally acceptable. It's shameful seeing men and women jubilating at such a counter-productive judgement.

Intuition is a poor guide in this matter. Intuition is useful for suspicion, not fact. And this judgement is based on fact; Prop 8 violates the Constitution. Earlier I posted 13 facts that show that the ruling was correct. You are free to attempt to refute those facts, but you will not be successful.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Let the GLBT crowd be legally married too; why are they going to be excluded in the marriage process. Allow them to adopt as well, since the majority will never have kids outside the Lesbian community.

 

[Chyke4real]

In what way is it "Counter productive"?

Do you need to ask that? If your ancestors were all gay, i bet you wouldn't have been around to make that comment.

All who stand by the truth, will be vindicated by the truth.

Homosexuality is a problem, it needs to be solved and not accepted.