Martin Luther vs. John Calvin

[JacktheCatholic]

Recently I have found myself reading about Martin Luther and consequently I want to know more about John Calvin. They both were around at the same time yet, they ended out in disagreement and formed two different churches which have grown quite large and are large in church society today. But how do these two churches differ in theology?

I know some say Martin Luther believed in Sacramental Union and These same say Calvin argued the Eucharist is spirit and not Jesus' Body and Blood. When Jesus said "This is my Body" we have Luther claiming that it is a literal interpretation and Calvin argued it is spirit only.

These two stand out in history but in the little reading I have done there appears to be more. Salvation and how it is attained (Faith alone). And other things I did not realize.

So, with as closely related as these two are what are their differences?

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Theres a good amount of differences for one Luther was sacramental..Calvin wasn't. They disagree on the extent of Christs Atonement, but I'm sure some one way more learned than I am like Tangible or DaRev will come along shortly.

 

[-SEEKING-]

I don't think they separated the Catholic Church, Luther specifically tried to reform the Roman church as he was a monk and felt that change was needed. But he also showed that salvation is in Christ alone, and not in any organized institution that would claim to be the only source of Christianity. But it wasn't a separation in any way. The Church existed from the beginning. Even before Rome made it the official religion of the empire.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I don't think they separated the Catholic Church, Luther specifically tried to reform the Roman church as he was a monk and felt that change was needed. But he also showed that salvation is in Christ alone, and not in any organized institution that would claim to be the only source of Christianity. But it wasn't a separation in any way. The Church existed from the beginning. Even before Rome made it the official religion of the empire.

Luther initially tried to reform the Catholic Church from within. When that didn't work, he split and made his own denomination. Calvin and friends are far more distanced from Catholicism. Unlike Luther, they were basically autonomous right from the start.

 

[-SEEKING-]

He split? Actually he was ex-communicated. And it's not that he made his own denomination, he wanted to get back to what the bible taught. At no time where his teachings shown to go against scripture.

 

[Tzaousios]

These two men are very closely asociated with the seperation from the Catholic Church and worked together closely.

You might want to do some more reading then because Luther and Calvin did not "work closely together" because of chronological reasons.

 

[Dark_Lite]

He split? Actually he was ex-communicated.

Well yes, after he was excommunicated he decided he was going to start up his own form of Christianity--though it was very similar to Catholicism. It doesn't particularly matter if it's "what the Bible taught" or not. From a purely objective point of view, he still split from the dominant Christian body of the time and started a new form.

And it's not that he made his own denomination, he wanted to get back to what the bible taught. At no time where his teachings shown to go against scripture.

In your opinion, anyway.

 

[-SEEKING-]

I'm sorry if I offended you Dark Lite. I was just presenting what I have studied.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I don't think they separated the Catholic Church, Luther specifically tried to reform the Roman church as he was a monk and felt that change was needed. But he also showed that salvation is in Christ alone, and not in any organized institution that would claim to be the only source of Christianity. But it wasn't a separation in any way. The Church existed from the beginning. Even before Rome made it the official religion of the empire.

I think I will rephrase my OP.

I was hoping not to turn this into a Catholic thing. I prefer to leave that at the door.

My apologies.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You might want to do some more reading then because Luther and Calvin did not "work closely together" because of chronological reasons.

I did not know that. I am glad I started this thread.

Can you share more? It will not only educate me but others here either lurking or posting.

Thank you

 

[-SEEKING-]

I think I will rephrase my OP.

I was hoping not to turn this into a Catholic thing. I prefer to leave that at the door.

My apologies.

Sorry about that. I certainly didn't mean to derail your thread. My apologies. I leave in peace.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Sorry about that. I certainly didn't mean to derail your thread. My apologies. I leave in peace.

You were fine. It was my fault. I have not made a thread in GT in awhile and should have known better.

For some reason, as soon as Catholic or RCC is mentioned, the thread gets derailed into an RCC is evil vs the RCC is the only church. Totally undertandable (I guess). But I truly wanted to learn more about these two and their differences because it has become of interest.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

You were fine. It was my fault. I have not made a thread in GT in awhile and should have known better.

For some reason, as soon as Catholic or RCC is mentioned, the thread gets derailed into an RCC is evil vs the RCC is the only church. Totally undertandable (I guess). But I truly wanted to learn more about these two and their differences because it has become of interest.

I think it might help you list any specific areas you are interested in are you interested in their differences in regards to Christs atonement? Differences on the sacraments? ect.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I think it might help you list any specific areas you are interested in are you interested in their differences in regards to Christs atonement? Differences on the sacraments? ect.

All!

Really, I know very little of Calvin and Luther just enough for Apologetics. I would like to hear anything and all.

I am tired of coming to GT and the RCC brought up all the time. As much as I love the RCC I would like to learn about others.

So please share anything about these two. If someone cannot think of differences then how about similiarities.



This will sound strange but my mother-in-law is Lutheran and she knows almost nothing. I know no one who is Calvin except maybe a couple from this site but I never hear them discuss their church and what it believes.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

All!

Really, I know very little of Calvin and Luther just enough for Apologetics. I would like to hear anything and all.

I am tired of coming to GT and the RCC brought up all the time. As much as I love the RCC I would like to learn about others.

So please share anything about these two. If someone cannot think of differences then how about similiarities.



This will sound strange but my mother-in-law is Lutheran and she knows almost nothing. I know no one who is Calvin except maybe a couple from this site but I never hear them discuss their church and what it believes.

Well I hope people are able to help you I would like to help but I have never been good at giving generalized answers, sorry I know you want to know all but I have never been good at just picking stuff out of thin air lol, I usually need some sort of framework

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well I hope people are able to help you I would like to help but I have never been good at giving generalized answers, sorry I know you want to know all but I have never been good at just picking stuff out of thin air lol, I usually need some sort of framework

How about differences on the Sacraments?

I touched a little on that with the Eucharist.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Martin Luther believes in two sacraments Baptism, and the Eucharist. He also believes that these two sacraments can be a means of grace to those who participate in them in FAITH. John Calvin believed in those two sacraments as well, however holds to a symbolic view of these two sacraments. Martin Luther believed that the Eucharist did have the real presence of Christ he calls in the Sacramental Union. However Calvin believes it to be just symbolic, and only spiritually there, the extreme would be Zwingili who (if Im not mistaken) believed Christ was absolutely NOT present..whether in body or spirit.

 

[Anoetos]

Recently I have found myself reading about Martin Luther and consequently I want to know more about John Calvin. These two men are very closely asociated and worked together closely. Yet, they ended out in disagreement and formed two different churches which have grown quite large and are large in church society today. But how do these two churches differ in theology?

I know some say Martin Luther believed in Consubstantiation and These same say Calvin argued the Eucharist is symbolic and not literal. When Jesus said "This is my Body" we have Luther claiming that it is a literal interpretation and Calvin argued it is symbolic and not literal.

These two stand out in history but in the little reading I have done there appears to be more. Salvation and how it is attained (Faith alone). And other things I did not realize.

So, with as closely related as these two are what are their differences?

This is fraught with errors.

Calvin and Luther never met and only knew of one another through their writings. Luther was older than Calvin and got his start earlier so there is more of a dependent relationship on the part of Calvin toward Luther than that of colleagues or peers. Calvin acknowledges this.

They did not "work together" and have a falling out.

Luther did not believe in "consubstantiation".

Calvin did not believe that the Eucharist was merely "symbolic".

Luther and Calvin agreed that justification was by Grace through Faith alone.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

"a secret too sublime for my mind to understand or words to express. I experience it rather than understand it." -John Calvin..in regards to the Eucharist.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Martin Luther believes in two sacraments Baptism, and the Eucharist. He also believes that these two sacraments can be a means of grace to those who participate in them in FAITH. John Calvin believed in those two sacraments as well, however holds to a symbolic view of these two sacraments. Martin Luther believed that the Eucharist did have the real presence of Christ he calls in the Sacramental Union. However Calvin believes it to be just symbolic, and only spiritually there, the extreme would be Zwingili who (if Im not mistaken) believed Christ was absolutely NOT present..whether in body or spirit.

Was there some kind of formal document concerning the differences they had with the sacrament(s)?

Zwingli is another I would like to learn more about. I think it is because Calvin and Luther are better known that I did not consider Zwingli.