Martin Luther vs. John Calvin

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you did more than just "gloss over" you could actually learn ALOT about the Lutheran faith. I myself own the Book of Concord..its a very wonderful resource tho Catholic beware you are in for a scare

Now you have me interested. I haven't read a book outside of the Bible for over 10yrs

Tho I have read thru a few commenataries on the Bible over the years

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1
*SNIP*
..........According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.
Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

If you did more than just "gloss over" you could actually learn ALOT about the Lutheran faith. I myself own the Book of Concord..its a very wonderful resource tho Catholic beware you are in for a scare

Thanks for the warning.

I am reading the Concord more. It is easier to read than the link I got for Calvin. For me this is an adventure seeking information. I get in moods where I love to learn.

For instance:

Article IX: Of Baptism.


1] Of Baptism they teach that it is necessary 2] to salvation, and that through Baptism is offered the grace of God, and that children are to be baptized who, being offered to God through Baptism are received into God's grace.
3] They condemn the Anabaptists, who reject the baptism of children, and say that children are saved without Baptism.

What is the teaching if an unbaptized person dies even a youbg child?

 

[Anoetos]

Jack,

I have gone and started a thread in the Lutheran subforum, letting them know that this thread is here and inviting them to come by and talk with you. I am no longer Lutheran so I really shouldn't speak for them.

I would encourage you to go ask them in their subforum any questions you might have. In the whole they are a decent lot and will be as helpful as you show yourself to be earnest in inquiry.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

We wouldn't say that there is any infusion. Rather, we would say that a Sacrament, by just being what it is (a Sacrament), is a means of Grace and that the simple practice of the Sacrament is a real communion with Christ's Body and Blood, broken and shed for us.

And from what I have read, that is pretty much what Calvin would say as well...

I took a Theology class a few years back and I was told Sacrament means Mystery. I think that is over simplified but does that sound about right with what you are saying about Sacramental Union?

Also, from what I read it seems Calvin believed that Jesus' body was not present and that Luther beleived the Body of Christ is present?

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

What is the teaching if an unbaptized person dies even a youbg child?

Not sure, tho I'm sure there is a resource out there explaining it..perhaps even in the book of Concord

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack,

I have gone and started a thread in the Lutheran subforum, letting them know that this thread is here and inviting them to come by and talk with you. I am no longer Lutheran so I really shouldn't speak for them.

I would encourage you to go ask them in their subforum any questions you might have. In the whole they are a decent lot and will be as helpful as you show yourself to be earnest in inquiry.

Thank you for sending the word out. Your help is appreciated.

 

[Anoetos]

I took a Theology class a few years back and I was told Sacrament means Mystery. I think that is over simplified but does that sound about right with what you are saying about Sacramental Union?

A Sacrament was, originally, a soldier's oath, and in the Eastern Church it is called a Mysterion, but I am not sure that the word carried the same meaning we have when we call a thing a Mystery. I think the central idea of a Sacrament is that it is an act instituted by Christ which actually does something, in some way it actually conveys the Grace vouchsafed to us in His death, burial and resurrection.

Also, from what I read it seems Calvin believed that Jesus' body was not present and that Luther beleived the Body of Christ is present?

That is more or less true, Calvin argued for a real presence in the Lord's Supper but he lacks the simplicity of the Lutheran view and this can make it difficult to explain. But yes, Christ's Body is up in Heaven until He returns and does not subsist in bread, that would be Calvin's view I believe.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I took a Theology class a few years back and I was told Sacrament means Mystery. I think that is over simplified but does that sound about right with what you are saying about Sacramental Union?

Also, from what I read it seems Calvin believed that Jesus' body was not present and that Luther beleived the Body of Christ is present?

I love a mystery!

Colo 1:26 The Mystery having been Hid from the ages and from the generations, now yet was made manifest to the holy-ones of Him.
27 To-whom wills, the God, to make known any the riches of the glory of this the Mystery in the Nations ,which is Christ in ye, the hope of glory.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh Messenger, whenever He may be being about to be trumpeting, also is finish the Mystery of the God as He brings Well-Message to His bond-servants the prophets.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Not sure, tho I'm sure there is a resource out there explaining it..perhaps even in the book of Concord

I am on Article XI so maybe I will run across it.

Thabnks

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I love a mystery!

Coming from the guy trying to descipher Revelation, I am not surprised.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Thank you for sending the word out. Your help is appreciated.

Oh yeah..I love the guys over in that Lutheran Forum They are uber smart

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Coming from the guy trying to descipher Revelation, I am not surprised.

Nah.....translating it was the twicky part

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089-4/#post53043894
What the sign?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Revelation 12:1 And a great Sign was seen in the heaven.
A Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun, and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet and having been gilded to gold and precious stone and pearls

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Luther initially tried to reform the Catholic Church from within. When that didn't work, he split and made his own denomination. Calvin and friends are far more distanced from Catholicism. Unlike Luther, they were basically autonomous right from the start.

No, Luther never split. He refused to recant his reviews, and was excommunicated. He never purposefully, of his own volition, left the Catholic Church.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Recently I have found myself reading about Martin Luther and consequently I want to know more about John Calvin. These two men are very closely asociated and worked together closely. Yet, they ended out in disagreement and formed two different churches which have grown quite large and are large in church society today. But how do these two churches differ in theology?

I know some say Martin Luther believed in Consubstantiation and These same say Calvin argued the Eucharist is symbolic and not literal. When Jesus said "This is my Body" we have Luther claiming that it is a literal interpretation and Calvin argued it is symbolic and not literal.

These two stand out in history but in the little reading I have done there appears to be more. Salvation and how it is attained (Faith alone). And other things I did not realize.

So, with as closely related as these two are what are their differences?

For the record, the never worked together. Indeed, they never met.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do have a question. What Bible translation did Calvin and Luther use? Thanks

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Another question concerning the Concord.

Article X: Of the Lord's Supper.


1] Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed 2] to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.

Does this mean one has to believe both the Body and Blood are present or they are to be rejected?

If so then how would that work for a Calvin that does not believe Jesus is present by Body and Blood?

Also, does "reject" boil down to excommunicate?


Thanks again.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

You were fine. It was my fault. I have not made a thread in GT in awhile and should have known better.

For some reason, as soon as Catholic or RCC is mentioned, the thread gets derailed into an RCC is evil vs the RCC is the only church. Totally undertandable (I guess). But I truly wanted to learn more about these two and their differences because it has become of interest.

No, not understanding at all. It really is a shame that the Catholic Church is such a polarizing point in so many arguments. It would be nice if the Catholic Church wasn't such a perennial boogieman for people who shape their theology almost entirely so as to be anything but Catholic. A real shame.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

I do have a question. What Bible translation did Calvin and Luther use? Thanks

...technically Luther translated his own

 

[JacktheCatholic]

For the record, the never worked together. Indeed, they never met.

Yes, I was corrected already.

I should probably update the OP.

Not sure what to change it to?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

...technically Luther translated his own

I justthought of another question.

Did Luther use the Septuagint? If not then what?

Also did Luther use the Vulgate?


Sorry to be a pest... I know am I bombarding with questions.