Jesus Loves You

[Zeena]

I am afraid it does not necessarily follow.

It can.. If you so chose..

Thank you for the scripture passages.

My pleasure!

Salvation is as salvation does.

Funny that, I was thinking of quoting 'man is as man does' earlier, but decided against it in liu of that *big hug*
[my compliments to Brinny for that one]

It does not lie in orthodoxy. If those who are generous and respectful toward others were suddenly raptured from our midst, the Christian churches of the world would not have to change a single word of their creeds in order to become hells on earth.

I don't hold to any creeds, less Nicene.

Nor do I adhere to a 'rapture' theory.

Yes. I believe in Christ for the works' sake.

Well, if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

There is no other measure that moves me.

There doesn't have to be.

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

When the works are miserly and rejecting, I have no choice but to doubt and study further.

Yea! Study how you can TRUMP their doctrine with their own card!

For us skeptics, belief is always provisional.

For us, Christians, feelings follow faith and faith follows fact.

We don't lean on Jesus because we THINK He can save, but because we KNOW He WILL!

Thank you for telling me that I am forgiven.

I'm guessing you've had some bad experiences with some bad people mascerading as disciples of Christ..

2 Cor 11:14-15
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Sometimes I tell people that as well. I lack whatever it takes for it to sound authoritative from my lips, but I believe I have as much right to say it as Christ did.

You said earlier that you believe on Jesus because of the works that God the Father did through Him.. Well, the greatest work was being made the propitiation for the sins of the world.. This took both a heart of love and a heart of courage, that only the Lion of Judah could muster up!

Ergo, you can now say, with Authority, just like Jesus did, because He did;

We're forgiven!

He was stating a fact.

And faith follows fact!

Insofar as I can recognize that fact, I will state it as well. It puzzled people but that is OK.

You are forgiven.

Mark 9:38-40
And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

Nice speaking with you, God bless you!

 

[Zeena]

Would it be false teaching here to suggest that this makes me believe that orthopraxy may be a lot more important than orthodoxy?

We walk by faith..

 

[Glass*Soul]

You said earlier that you believe on Jesus because of the works that God the Father did through Him.. Well, the greatest work was being made the propitiation for the sins of the world.. This took both a heart of love and a heart of courage, that only the Lion of Judah could muster up!

Ergo, you can now say, with Authority, just like Jesus did, because He did;

We're forgiven!

And faith follows fact!

Well, that isn't exactly what I said.

I'm truly a non-theist. Sometimes I can cast Christ's saying regarding the Father into a non-theistic light if I need to in order to participate with Christians when it becomes necessary. A few years ago, I defined the Father in the following way in order to have enough language in common to take spiritual direction from a Benedictine sister. In part:

That which strikes us as both powerful and mysterious, such that it seems to have a grip on us rather than the other way around, yet we do not fully understand how or why. In other words, our conscious sense of self seems to us to be subordinate to it while barely apprehending it. It is that which seems, when we find ourselves moved by it, to be capable of overwhelming us, and yet which remains very largely unknown to us.

[snipping a bunch of stuff for brevity]

In short, God the Father may be our apprehension of how things *are* on a very idealized level.

It wasn't theistic, but it was language we could both work with.

Anyway, sometimes you'll catch me saying this and such about the Father as if I were a believer because the discussion feels important enough to me that I want to get in on it somehow. Just know that my meaning is always non-theistic.

 

[razeontherock]

Or just maybe sometimes your meaning is accurate Truth, w/o the false image you've noticed people try to call god.

 

[scraparcs]

We walk by faith..

Yet I look at great men and women worldwide and note that they aren't all of the same faith.

 

[razeontherock]

Can you see their Faith, or just their labels?

 

[Witchy Bee]

I haven't posted in this thread since like page 1, but I am curious as to what it is I've missed. What are we doing exactly?

 

[razeontherock]

Conversing.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

*bumpity bump bump bump!* Interesting responses here.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Can you see their Faith, or just their labels?

Faith is shown by action. We can see at least some parts of their faith.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Faith is shown by action. We can see at least some parts of their faith.

We have an interesting thread going on concerning that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7432717/
Did Paul contradict James concerning Works/Faith?

1 Peter 2:12 The behavior of ye in the the nations having ideal.
That in which they are speaking against ye as evil-doers, out of the ideal works/ergwn <2041> being spectators, they should be glorifying the God in day of visitation/inspection.
[Matt 5:16]

 

[Zeena]

Faith is shown by action. We can see at least some parts of their faith.

That's correct.

Titus 2:1
But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

1 Timothy 1:5-11
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2 Timothy 2:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

We need not go far to know that some who profess faith do not walk according to the rule of faith in Christ.

So, rather than look unto the theology of those who profess faith, how's about looking to their works wrought in faith through love?

Col 2:5-7
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Jesus Loves You

Great! So that's settled, then.

 

[razeontherock]

Faith is shown by action. We can see at least some parts of their faith.

So let's put this back in context, ok? Does this Faith you can see respect religious borders? Or does it seem to suggest that the Faith is much the same, despite whatever divisive walls people put up to separate themselves?

 

[SithDoughnut]

So let's put this back in context, ok? Does this Faith you can see respect religious borders? Or does it seem to suggest that the Faith is much the same, despite whatever divisive walls people put up to separate themselves?

They're very much separate. I see good people worshipping several gods, possibly hundreds, and treating select animals as holy above others. I also see good people going to church every Sunday and taking part in the ritual cannibalism of a man-god. I see yet more good people who don't believe in the supernatural at all, and who just go about their lives uncaring about any final truth.

All these people are good, but they are not of the same faith. There are no divisive walls within faiths, faiths are the walls.

 

[razeontherock]

I see good people worshipping several gods, possibly hundreds, and treating select animals as holy above others. I also see good people going to church every Sunday and taking part in the ritual cannibalism of a man-god. I see yet more good people who don't believe in the supernatural at all, and who just go about their lives uncaring about any final truth.

YOu do realize you're not talking about Faith here at all, but religion? MAJOR goal-post change there! The topic was Faith you can see; try sticking with that. (Oh and Holy Communion is NOT ritual cannibalism. You're expressing the same lack of perception the ancient Romans did)

 

[razeontherock]

*bumpity bump bump bump!* Interesting responses here.

Haven't seen you in a while, and where'd your uber-cool hi-res pics go?

 

[SithDoughnut]

YOu do realize you're not talking about Faith here at all, but religion? MAJOR goal-post change there! The topic was Faith you can see; try sticking with that.

You're not doing one of these things where you use a brand new version of the word 'faith', right? Let's stick to the basic definitions.

Faith | Define Faith at Dictionary.com

Faith is what we believe. Religion is the specific classification of some of those beliefs. The context of this discussion so far has been firmly within the religious area of faith. You can use your own definitions if you wish, but you're going to have to tell me them before we can talk about them. I find that when it comes to religious discussions, people just apply whatever word they think is appropriate to an idea they have that may or may not have anything to do with the definition. Like the word 'God' for example.

Many good people have entirely opposing faiths. We can see this through their actions. For example, a Muslim will almost certainly not worship Vishnu, and a Hindu will probably not worship Allah (I say almost and probably because there are always exceptions) but both people are good. The only thing that the two people share in terms of religious faith is that they have a faith.

If you believe something is correct, or if you have faith in a specific idea, you are not going to act contrary to that, at least not of your own volition. Through observing how people act, we can come to understand what they believe without them even having to tell us. In fact, how people act is a much better indicator of how people believe that what they say they believe.

(Oh and Holy Communion is NOT ritual cannibalism. You're expressing the same lack of perception the ancient Romans did)

You can call it metaphorical or spiritual cannibalism, or something else entirely, if you want, but there are many Christians who firmly believe that they are actually eating the body of Christ. It's not lack of perception, I just wasn't necessarily referring directly to you.

 

[razeontherock]

Faith is what we believe. Religion is the specific classification of some of those beliefs. The context of this discussion so far has been firmly within the religious area of faith.

No, not at all. Back up a few pages and re-read the context! Religion is a completely different subject, and irrelevant.

In fact, how people act is a much better indicator of how people believe that what they say they believe.

Like back to that, for instance. Leave out the minor time amounts of strange behavior in whatever-shaped building, or peculiar verbiage. Stick to action, and I'm asking what divisions or labels you will see to distinguish "different" Faiths?

You can call it metaphorical or spiritual cannibalism, or something else entirely, if you want, but there are many Christians who firmly believe that they are actually eating the body of Christ.

Millions do this, yes. Let them take it to a lab for examination under a microscope. Why don't they do this? Because they know their belief is simply not true. Some RC's even go so far as to say their church never taught that idea. I get a good chuckle out of it, but the whole thing just isn't worth pursuing. You're talking about a practice that takes up a max of what, 5 minutes / week or less? This is not a part of real life.

 

[b&wpac4]

Millions do this, yes. Let them take it to a lab for examination under a microscope. Why don't they do this? Because they know their belief is simply not true.

Before insulting the belief, you may want to stop by OBOB and ask them about this practice. I'm not saying I believe it (or course) but you are not presenting the idea correctly.