Basic Grammar for GT, Courtesy of Mel and GCC

[Thekla]

There have been many uneducated saints, naturally, great men and women of God who have lived lives of great piety and love.

But the theologians of the East have been great men of learning as well, from Gregory of Nyssa to John Zizioulas.

There have been great theologians of all backgrounds and abilities.
(I do like the two you mentioned and many others.)

I have never pointed out someone's bad grammar in the midst of a thread except on the one recent occasion when they got on my case for a typo.

Then indeed you can understand that this thread, and some of the comments made here, might be painful for some.

Recall Hebrews 5:2

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

There have been great theologians of all backgrounds and abilities.
(I do like the two you mentioned and many others.)

Can you name a single Eastern theologian- not mystic or general saint- who was not highly educated?

Then indeed you can understand that this thread, and some of the comments made here, might be painful for some

Learning is a painful process. If I correct someone on a mathematical error, that is something that points out something that they have done wrong, but it needs to be pointed out nonetheless.

Recall Hebrews 5:2

As for Hebrews 5:2, in the first case, the weaknesses in question are sins. But supposing they are not, the passage says "He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward." He deals with them gently, but he deals with them nonetheless.

 

[Thekla]

I have communicated with people who spoke a dialect I was not familiar with, or who barely spoke English at all. The difference? All this communication was face to face. Non-verbal cues go a long way. (I have the same difficulty understanding when talking on the phone with someone whom I cannot see.) On a message board, grammar is the ONLY thing we can use to understand the other.

Not entirely; the literary career of the likes of Queneau and Kazantzakis proves otherwise.

As with these, read the "poetry" of what is said. The anomalous can reveal as much or more of the 'personhood' than a well wrought sentence. In understanding something of the person the concepts can more easily follow.

 

[heymikey80]

Actually I kind of appreciate the Gospel of Mark.

 

[Thekla]

Can you name a single Eastern theologian- not mystic or general saint- who was not highly educated?

" The theologian is the one who prays truly, and on who prays truly is a theologian." Evagrius Ponticus

Learning is a painful process. If I correct someone on a mathematical error, that is something that points out something that they have done wrong, but it needs to be pointed out nonetheless.

Very well. Learn to be patient with those of us who are grammatically impaired. But otoh, be aware of the richness that can be expressed, or what can be conveyed in spite of errors. As for your mathematical students, there also something can be learned from the error - in human interaction, there is never a lack of value.

As for Hebrews 5:2, in the first case, the weaknesses in question are sins. But supposing they are not, the passage says "He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward." He deals with them gently, but he deals with them nonetheless.

And how does He deal with them ?

 

[Dark_Lite]

I think this thread is a good time to bring up Lord Timothy Dexter, particularly his book about himself:

At the age of 50 he decided to write a book about himself - A Pickle for the Knowing Ones or Plain Truth in a Homespun Dress. He wrote about himself and complained about politicians, clergy and his wife. The book contained 8,847 words and 33,864 letters, but absolutely no punctuation, and capital letters were sprinkled about at random. At first he handed his book out for free, but it rapidly became popular and ran into eight editions in total.[citation needed] When people complained that it was hard to read, for the second edition he added an extra page - 13 lines of punctuation marks - asking readers to "peper and solt it as they plese".

This man is quite possibly one of the most awesome people in the universe.

 

[Philothei]

wat your sayin is grammer, should be uesd

italic/i?

I think it depends how you use the colors HOW IS THIS BLINDING?

*make ya read it though*

 

[Sophia7]

I think this thread is a good time to bring up Lord Timothy Dexter, particularly his book about himself:


This man is quite possibly one of the most awesome people in the universe.

This is not awesome:

One day he began to wonder what people would say about him after he died. He proceeded to announce his death and to prepare for a burial. About 3,000 people appeared for the wake. However, Dexter's wife refused to cry for his passing, for which he later caned her, and so he decided not to appear to his guests at all. Timothy Dexter actually died in 1806.
​

 

[Dark_Lite]

This is not awesome:

One day he began to wonder what people would say about him after he died. He proceeded to announce his death and to prepare for a burial. About 3,000 people appeared for the wake. However, Dexter's wife refused to cry for his passing, for which he later caned her, and so he decided not to appear to his guests at all. Timothy Dexter actually died in 1806.
​

Well, yes, there is that. The awesome part mostly refers to his insane eccentricity, stubbornly marching to his own drum, the sheer luck involved in his amassing of his fortune, and his book. In reality, he was actually very narcissistic, detached, and apparently somewhat abusive--not to mention uneducated and mean. Not many actual good qualities in his personality.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

" The theologian is the one who prays truly, and on who prays truly is a theologian." Evagrius Ponticus

Yes, but surely he did not mean that one needed merely to pray truly, and that would make them a good theologian. He was saying that a theologian, in addition to other qualifications, must be a true man of prayer and not simply an academic.

Evagrius was himself, however, quite the academic. He was known for his schooling in rhetoric and logic, and was trained in classical studies.

Dark Lite

In regards to Timothy Dexter, I must note that I am a fan of Cormac McCarthy and his writings. McCarthy uses punctuation in the forms of periods and commas, but he never uses quotation marks. This is a breaking of the rules in order to convey a sense of continuity between dialog and narrative.

I would note for everyone, however, that none of us here are quite the linguistic masters that Cormac McCarthy is. He can break the rules to good effect because he knows them. Effective breaking of rules is dependent on the presence rules in the first place. McCarthy's removal of quotation marks would not exactly have the same effect if quotation marks were purely optional.

Likewise, as some have said in regards to humor, the breaking of grammatical rules in humor only works because, like all good comedy, the breaking of those rules confounds expectations. If there is no expectation of good grammar, there is no comedy.

 

[Thekla]

Yes, but surely he did not mean that one needed merely to pray truly, and that would make them a good theologian. He was saying that a theologian, in addition to other qualifications, must be a true man of prayer and not simply an academic.

Evagrius was himself, however, quite the academic. He was known for his schooling in rhetoric and logic, and was trained in classical studies.

There is the matter of theosis.
Persons of true spiritual depth are theologians, not the other way around; the simplest, illiterate person can iterate the "correct" theology in word and life.

 

[Rick Otto]

I graduated with a 5th grade reading average myself and had taught myself to read much better later in life.

Now, I don't know where I am at right now with my grammer but my limited vocabulary is certainly not a secret around these parts, I want to say, "Say what"?

And yet I too get a bit rolley eyed when I need a dictionary as a mediator between myself and the person who is speaking to me.

Goes both ways I suppose.

Sometimes a ten dollar word actualy is better,... more precise, more concise... I'll try to hotlink 'em to an online Webster's when I can remember two. (I mean "to")

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nothing ruins your argument and credibility more than a poorly phrased post. If your post looks like a 2nd grader wrote it, it doesn't matter how good your argument is. I'm far, FAR less likely to take you seriously. So, because I'm a grammar freak and twitch and die a little every time somebody confuses your and you're, a basic grammar (and posting) lesson for all the denizens of GT:

Tis true.
It could also land you on the FSTDT website

http://www.christianforums.com/t7350852/#post51038779
GT Fundies. Who are they?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

There is the matter of theosis.
Persons of true spiritual depth are theologians, not the other way around; the simplest, illiterate person can iterate the "correct" theology in word and life.

Well of course. They can and ought to recite orthodox doctrine.

The question is who can and ought constructively contribute to the ongoing debates.

Now, if the debate is "should we baptize infants," well, no one on this board has even thought up an argument one way or the other that hasn't been thought up before. So they might deploy a theological argument, and it may be the correct argument, but that doesn't make them a theologian. That makes them an apologist for a theological position.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Sometimes a ten dollar word actualy is better,... more precise, more concise... I'll try to hotlink 'em to an online Webster's when I can remember two. (I mean "to")

Very true.

If I said "I got the ball," I could mean "I received the ball" or "I took the ball." Isn't it better to use the more precise words, rather than A. leaving ambiguity, or B. saying "I got the ball by the graciousness of another" or "I got the ball by force"?

 

[Chesterton]

i seen people make threads complaining about the grammar before but between them all this is the most best one evers

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i seen people make threads complaining about the grammar before but between them all this is the most best one evers

Can you post a few links to those? Thanks

 

[andross77]

Good thread .

It brings up *my* opinion of grammar freaks ... they are disingenuous . Language is for communication . If something can be understood as is , then the message performed it's created job . Context can help solve some ambiguous statements . Questions can help solve the rest . If one can correct a statement , then the message was received - no need for corrections . If one truly doesn't understand a statement , they would have no idea how to correct it . Correcting someone is merely an excuse to side-track a thread . It takes away any credibility of the one doing the correcting as they show that they are more interested having their way with the wording than the message of the post .

English is a blankety-blank ( fill in with your favorite negative term ) language - wierd rules and pronunciations and far too many exceptions to rules . And , it is constantly changing . Everyone who uses it must deal with that . Language was made as a tool for communication . And , a tool is not always used as recommended . The owner can use it for whatever use they desire . The English/British are great at manipulating the language for jokes and riddles . If grammar freaks would have their way , most humor would be banned .

Let us continue as we have been . The grammar freaks can ignore the English-usage commoners . And , the English-usage commoners can ignore the grammar freaks .

Excellent Post! Superb! I love that you got to the ROOT of the issue and didn't get caught up in surfacy annoyances (such as the OP). The written word is for communication primarily, beauty a distant second (or third or fourth or fifth....)

 

[Melethiel]

Thinking that the OP is simply focusing on petty annoyances is missing the fact that many people here are NOT native english speakers, and if proper grammar isn't used, the point does NOT get across. If there were no problems in understanding, you might have a point, but the whole reason for this thread is because there ARE difficulties in understanding.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I always think it best (in my own case) to copy paste scripture then

Which is what I do (accentuated in rainbow colors ofcourse)