• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Extreme minimalism, the next step

Autumnleaf

Legend
Jun 18, 2005
24,828
1,034
✟33,297.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
A friend of mine is an extreme minimalist. The following is his story. Is he going too far or should more of us strive to be as ecofriendly?

"Its been a step-by-step proces but it seems that over the past 5 years or so I have evolved into a very extreme minimalist.

At its height:

-No TV
-No Car
-No computer
-No Refridgerator (unplugged it)
-Got rid of 95% of furniture (kept mattress on floor and a chair to sit on)
-VERY little electricity. My bill was about $14/month while others in the condo building were $200+.
-Diet limited to eating whatever I could consume that had no funny ingredients in it and costed no more than $2 per day, before sales taxes.
-No lighting except for the screen of my cell phone at night to read
-No heating
-No air conditioning

My possessions consisted of clothes, a pot, a wooden spoon, toiletries, bed, chair, cell phone, I would use the stove to cook, never refridgerated anything, got around with a $28/month bus pass or walk, tried a bicycle but didnt like it and returned it, I would wash my clothes in the condo building washing machine but hang up clothes to dry (saved $.75 per week), access the internet at the library, if it got too hot that I would wake up with sweat inside my ears (that scares me because I think its going to cause an ear infection) I would sleep under the ceiling fan and turn it on, when it got to cold (snow outside) I bought a heated blanket and slept on top of it. The windows were open year round except for when it was raining.

At its height I had lost 50 lbs from the diet restrictions and having to walk about 10 miles a day. 6'1 160lbs. My family thought that I had AIDS and other people had wondered if I had a drug problem. Id try to eat as much variety as I could but I guess it didnt look too healthy subsiting mostly off a can of vegetables cooked with a mug of rice each day. So I had to ease the diet restrictions somewhat and am back to normal in many ways but the desire to return to that still lingers. Its actually very comforting having nothing.

I moved myslef for about 2 months into a homeless shelter to see if that was an improvement but it was not. I liked having only a mat on the floor and how its like 300 people in one building (it uses less resources) but there were some virtue issues with that croud. That and they require the people to sit through church service and the building was climate controlled.

So all that was as far as I got but I think im ready to take this to the next step. There are some comforts that I want to get rid of, mainly: living in a town, inside a building, getting around on the public bus, using a stove, buying food at a grocery store, cooking food, warm water, etc.

What I have in mind:
-Get a plot of land, perhaps 40 acres? Hopefully in a place that is not too cold, not too hot, not too dry and not too wet and no illegal immigrants sprinting by. (maybe someone out there could advise me on how much land I would need for subsistence and privacy because I really dont know)
-Live in a tent, probably a large one that I can stand up in.
-Get a donkey for transportation. I like them more than horses, horses move around too much on their own but donkeys just stand there and stare off into space.
-Plant my own food and subsist off that, probably just eat it all raw. I imagine id have to buy food in the winter or learn about canning.
-Get chickens for eggs and goats for milk, id probably have to boil the eggs but some people eat raw eggs so maybe id get used to that and then pretty much everything I eat would be raw.
-No cows. I dont like them because they are big and scary looking.
-fish in a river or lake if I can get land close enough to one, I imagine id have to cook the fish? Is there a such thing as river sushi?
-I want to get rid of cell phone but too many things assume a telephone number but I may take a little trip and knock on an amish family's door and ask them how they handle the telephone issue. If I have to say im amish I guess I could do that but im really not.
-get water from a well with a hand pump I imagine. Brita filter.
-Access the internet from public computers but im thinking that if I am too remote from one I would settle wiht a laptop and get solar panels but that idea gives me a bad taste.

Im writing all this out to solicit thoughts about this. In teh last year I had relaxed things, recently bought a $1000 car and a laptop while I search for land but I really want to get rid of them as soon as possible. There have been some great philosophical advantages of reducing one's life down to nothing. For example - watching all the fat people driving around in their cars trying to figure out why they are so fat. They pay for the car, the gym, the gas to get to the gym, the slim fast and the weight loss pills. They have to work more to pay for these things. All the while they wonder why they are broke and have no free time."
 

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,105
114,202
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
i'm minimizing...sorta'......but not so extreme....at my own pace....it seems an automatic thing that there's no gaining weight.....i'm studying on what i can do without...

i live near enough to work that i can walk back n' forth....looking at a cheaper apt that is a little further from work...i walk ev'rywhere....

your post is thought-provoking....lotsa food fer thought...thanks.
 
Upvote 0

Hisbygrace

Carried On The Wings Of An Eagle
Sep 22, 2004
120,388
6,418
75
California
✟173,418.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Politics
US-Democrat

MOD HAT ON
A thread cleanup has been done to remove several off topic posts or flaming. If any of your posts have been removed it was because they were in violation or quoted a post which was removed. Please remember to abide by the CF Sitewide Rules concerning off topic and flaming posts.

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0

Skaloop

Agnostic atheist, pro-choice anti-abortion
May 10, 2006
16,332
899
49
Burnaby
Visit site
✟44,046.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-NDP
It's ok if he's happy and healthy.

Ever see the movie, "Into the Wild"? It chronicles the true story of a young guy that went to live off in the wild out of some spiritual/religious/philosophical quest and died because of it.

-Lyn

I was gonna bring up that movie as well. It's a romantic and fascinating idea to just head out into the wild (although probably not near as intriguing as portrayed in the movie), but I couldn't do it. I've entertained the idea, thinking of just how it would work, but I've got responsibilities and ties to my wife, friends, and family that I cannot just sever.
 
Upvote 0

Rebekka

meow meow meow meow meow meow
Oct 25, 2006
13,103
1,229
✟41,875.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
We're trying to live a simpler life. We already threw the tv out, we have no airconditioning or dryer or cellphone or lots of kitchen (or other) appliances, we're careful about what we eat, the car is the next thing to go (this year, we expect). My husband will have to adjust to not having a car, but for me it will be normal as I've lived without a car for most of my life and don't have a driving license.

I know quite a few people who are much further than we are - I don't think I would like to live without electricity so we'll keep that. My mum grew up on a farm from the 1700's without running water or electricity but she loved it - they had so much space.
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
I am a moderationalist. Minimialism is as as excessive in one direction as maximalism would be in the other.

We don't have to apologize to the Earth for existing. We don't need to be eco-martyrs. Let's exist and be prosperous -- at least comfortably so -- and do so as wisely as we can, making the best use of science and technology.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,105
114,202
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I am a moderationalist. Minimialism is as as excessive in one direction as maximalism would be in the other.

We don't have to apologize to the Earth for existing. We don't need to be eco-martyrs. Let's exist and be prosperous -- at least comfortably so -- and do so as wisely as we can, making the best use of science and technology.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I agree. Especially with your 3rd sentence.
 
Upvote 0

Blackmarch

Legend
Oct 23, 2004
12,221
325
43
Utah, USA
✟40,116.00
Faith
Marital Status
Single
A friend of mine is an extreme minimalist. The following is his story. Is he going too far or should more of us strive to be as ecofriendly?

"Its been a step-by-step proces but it seems that over the past 5 years or so I have evolved into a very extreme minimalist.

At its height:

-No TV
-No Car
-No computer
-No Refridgerator (unplugged it)
-Got rid of 95% of furniture (kept mattress on floor and a chair to sit on)
-VERY little electricity. My bill was about $14/month while others in the condo building were $200+.
-Diet limited to eating whatever I could consume that had no funny ingredients in it and costed no more than $2 per day, before sales taxes.
-No lighting except for the screen of my cell phone at night to read
-No heating
-No air conditioning

My possessions consisted of clothes, a pot, a wooden spoon, toiletries, bed, chair, cell phone, I would use the stove to cook, never refridgerated anything, got around with a $28/month bus pass or walk, tried a bicycle but didnt like it and returned it, I would wash my clothes in the condo building washing machine but hang up clothes to dry (saved $.75 per week), access the internet at the library, if it got too hot that I would wake up with sweat inside my ears (that scares me because I think its going to cause an ear infection) I would sleep under the ceiling fan and turn it on, when it got to cold (snow outside) I bought a heated blanket and slept on top of it. The windows were open year round except for when it was raining.

At its height I had lost 50 lbs from the diet restrictions and having to walk about 10 miles a day. 6'1 160lbs. My family thought that I had AIDS and other people had wondered if I had a drug problem. Id try to eat as much variety as I could but I guess it didnt look too healthy subsiting mostly off a can of vegetables cooked with a mug of rice each day. So I had to ease the diet restrictions somewhat and am back to normal in many ways but the desire to return to that still lingers. Its actually very comforting having nothing.

I moved myslef for about 2 months into a homeless shelter to see if that was an improvement but it was not. I liked having only a mat on the floor and how its like 300 people in one building (it uses less resources) but there were some virtue issues with that croud. That and they require the people to sit through church service and the building was climate controlled.

So all that was as far as I got but I think im ready to take this to the next step. There are some comforts that I want to get rid of, mainly: living in a town, inside a building, getting around on the public bus, using a stove, buying food at a grocery store, cooking food, warm water, etc.

What I have in mind:
-Get a plot of land, perhaps 40 acres? Hopefully in a place that is not too cold, not too hot, not too dry and not too wet and no illegal immigrants sprinting by. (maybe someone out there could advise me on how much land I would need for subsistence and privacy because I really dont know)
-Live in a tent, probably a large one that I can stand up in.
-Get a donkey for transportation. I like them more than horses, horses move around too much on their own but donkeys just stand there and stare off into space.
-Plant my own food and subsist off that, probably just eat it all raw. I imagine id have to buy food in the winter or learn about canning.
-Get chickens for eggs and goats for milk, id probably have to boil the eggs but some people eat raw eggs so maybe id get used to that and then pretty much everything I eat would be raw.
-No cows. I dont like them because they are big and scary looking.
-fish in a river or lake if I can get land close enough to one, I imagine id have to cook the fish? Is there a such thing as river sushi?
-I want to get rid of cell phone but too many things assume a telephone number but I may take a little trip and knock on an amish family's door and ask them how they handle the telephone issue. If I have to say im amish I guess I could do that but im really not.
-get water from a well with a hand pump I imagine. Brita filter.
-Access the internet from public computers but im thinking that if I am too remote from one I would settle wiht a laptop and get solar panels but that idea gives me a bad taste.

Im writing all this out to solicit thoughts about this. In teh last year I had relaxed things, recently bought a $1000 car and a laptop while I search for land but I really want to get rid of them as soon as possible. There have been some great philosophical advantages of reducing one's life down to nothing. For example - watching all the fat people driving around in their cars trying to figure out why they are so fat. They pay for the car, the gym, the gas to get to the gym, the slim fast and the weight loss pills. They have to work more to pay for these things. All the while they wonder why they are broke and have no free time."
moderation in all things is a very good rule of thumb....

however I find this list:
At its height:

-No TV
-No Car
-No computer
-No Refridgerator (unplugged it)
-Got rid of 95% of furniture (kept mattress on floor and a chair to sit on)
-VERY little electricity. My bill was about $14/month while others in the condo building were $200+.
-Diet limited to eating whatever I could consume that had no funny ingredients in it and costed no more than $2 per day, before sales taxes.
-No lighting except for the screen of my cell phone at night to read
-No heating
-No air conditioning

to be pretty commendable for the most part...

I would suggest that not having a refrigerator or something that can keep fresh produce good for an extended period of time is a bad idea.
Having some form of extended mobility is also a very good investment, and a car would be ideal.


Why I find it to be commendable is that a lot of things like TV, computers, furniture, and etc.. are not necessary for living, and so to do away with them is not as extreme as it might appear.
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
I have a car, computer, refrigerator, furniture, electricity, lighting, and heating. I will not apologize for this, or for existing. I find ALL of these things necessary, not only for survival (and I would die without heating in Sweden), but also for flourishing. I am not interested in bare survival. All of these technologies have improved human life. I do not want to return to the Dark Ages.

It is extreme to give up such things. I assert my right to exist! I assert my right to live a human life, and there is nothing quite so fundamentally human as the use of technology.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
29,548
16,750
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟473,927.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
I have a car, computer, refrigerator, furniture, electricity, lighting, and heating. I will not apologize for this, or for existing. I find ALL of these things necessary, not only for survival (and I would die without heating in Sweden), but also for flourishing. I am not interested in bare survival. All of these technologies have improved human life. I do not want to return to the Dark Ages.

It is extreme to give up such things. I assert my right to exist! I assert my right to live a human life, and there is nothing quite so fundamentally human as the use of technology.
Seems there may be a disconnect between what you "want" and what you "need". You would die without heating, but you wouldn't die if you had a different source of heat. You want a computer and a car but you could live without one.

There is nothing wrong with desperately wanting these things, but don't think you need them to exist.

Nobody is taking away your right to exist but what do you think about the idea that you are defining your existence by your material posessions?
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Seems there may be a disconnect between what you "want" and what you "need".

No!

You would die without heating, but you wouldn't die if you had a different source of heat.

Heating is heating. I never mentioned the source. As long as my apartment is warm enough to be comfortable and healthy, that's what I mean.

You want a computer and a car but you could live without one.

I could survive without a computer. I could not live without one, if living means self-actualization.

There is nothing wrong with desperately wanting these things, but don't think you need them to exist.

I certainly do need them! I agree that I won't instantly drop over dead without them, but not all needs are of this sort. I could survive without love, but I do need love. I could survive living like Crusoe on a desert island, but I would not exist as the person I am. I would be in desperate, chronic need, e.g. for friendship. I would be decaying and stunted and dysfunctional as a person, and most likely suffering, and wouldn't really exist as who I am.

Nobody is taking away your right to exist

Oh, yes you are! You are stealing my right to self-actualize, to unfold as who I am.

what do you think about the idea that you are defining your existence by your material posessions?

I'm not doing this. My material possessions are an integral part of my life activities. My possessions do not "define" me, but they certainly enable me in the actualization of my potentials. If anything, I define them by making use of them in my pattern of personal growth.

To this neo-Luddite philosophy, I say NO! This is evil of the highest magnitude!


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Blayz

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2007
3,367
231
60
Singapore
✟4,827.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I am a moderationalist. Minimialism is as as excessive in one direction as maximalism would be in the other.

I am a hedonist, which by and large puts me at the maximalismist end of the spectrum.

I don't mind you wishy washy moderationalists, but given the choice between minimalism and chistainism I'd choose the latterism.

For example - watching all the fat people driving around in their cars trying to figure out why they are so fat. They pay for the car, the gym, the gas to get to the gym, the slim fast and the weight loss pills. They have to work more to pay for these things. All the while they wonder why they are broke and have no free time."

I think watching grass grow would be a more exciting pasttime, but then I actually have things to pas the time with. I am also not fat, and don't have a car because I don't need one where I live. I also have tons of cash and oodles of free time.
 
Upvote 0

Blackmarch

Legend
Oct 23, 2004
12,221
325
43
Utah, USA
✟40,116.00
Faith
Marital Status
Single
I have a car, computer, refrigerator, furniture, electricity, lighting, and heating. I will not apologize for this, or for existing. I find ALL of these things necessary, not only for survival (and I would die without heating in Sweden), but also for flourishing. I am not interested in bare survival. All of these technologies have improved human life. I do not want to return to the Dark Ages.

It is extreme to give up such things. I assert my right to exist! I assert my right to live a human life, and there is nothing quite so fundamentally human as the use of technology.


eudaimonia,

Mark
Nor should you. I"m not saying that such is necessary or that the the list provided in the OP would work with everyone.
But technology does come at a cost, as does lavish living... and currently it appears as if the cost will rise.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
43,004
20,717
Finger Lakes
✟337,967.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Mass-produced canned veggies are not minimalist. Eat fresh or can your own (requires fire and a pressure-pot).

A root cellar will help with storage of carrots, potatoes, apples and such. Sauerkraut and kimchi keep well and will help prevent scurvy.

If you want to farm/garden, then a fence will help keep out rabbits, raccoons, deer, goats, donkeys and other devastators.

Try Eliot Coleman's Four Season Harvest for info on organic farming in a cold climate.
 
Upvote 0

janman345

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2010
918
21
✟1,170.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You could install a solar panal if you are worried about your electric bill. There are also ways to use alternative energy (solar/wind) to generate hydrogen to use for heating instead of natural gas, the real cost there is the high pressure bottles and the compressor.

The whole point of technology is to increase leisure time to develope more technology or enjoy yourself, heating with wood is ok if you have your own house and the sq footage to install a nice one but thats not feasable in an apt, my parents use wood and the catch is you can go on any trips in the winter longer than a day or 2 because the pipes will freeze and its a huge hassle to drain the lines everytime you want to go somewhere.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,105
114,202
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
i recently got an air conditioner. i'm not sorry. I couldn't sleep. it was soooooo hot, with the humidity, the heat index would be like 97 at midnight and i couldn't sleep in a pool o' sweat...
 
Upvote 0