What's a denomination?

[Luther073082]

Kirk, you could replace the bolded with any statement out there and it would still be accurate. It's a meaningless statement to say "if we all believe the exact same thing, we'll all be one." Duh. There are plenty of people like you of all faiths and denominations that aren't going to budge and will only accept unity if it comes the way they want it and truly believe is right.

Well I'm not out trying to change everyone telling them we should all be unified in some sort of false hopeless sense of unity.

True unity comes through true agreement on doctrine. I'm just fine with the Christian church not being united as long as the pure and true beliefs of the holy catholic church - (defined by the augsburg confession) are perserved.

 

[b.hopeful]

Well I'm not out trying to change everyone telling them we should all be unified in some sort of false hopeless sense of unity.

True unity comes through true agreement on doctrine. I'm just fine with the Christian church not being united as long as the pure and true beliefs of the holy catholic church - (defined by the augsburg confession) are perserved.

So true unity means everyone is Lutheran? The Augsburg Confession just replaces a flesh and blood Pope for a Paper pope. Instead of one man being the authority(Pope) the opinions of many men are put on paper to be the authority.(paper pope) I don't think we(as Christians) are ever going to relinquish our rights to seek communion with God on our own to having a man made authority tell us what our communion with God must look like. The horse is out of the barn on this one,imo. Protestantism means "pro testifying" and testifying means telling your own story, not confessing a story the authorities tell you that you must believe. Will we have unity? Surely...every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.....but I don't think I need to end that statement with every tongue will confess that the Augsburg Confession is the Truth.

Pure relationship....Jesus didn't come to highlight the divide between man's understanding and God but to bridge it.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

err how could I return to something that I never supported or claimed?

you said you didn't care for denominations

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Kirk, you could replace the bolded with any statement out there and it would still be accurate. It's a meaningless statement to say "if we all believe the exact same thing, we'll all be one." Duh. There are plenty of people like you of all faiths and denominations that aren't going to budge and will only accept unity if it comes the way they want it and truly believe is right.

That is what unity is. Christians often confuse tolerance for each other with unity.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

So true unity means everyone is Lutheran? The Augsburg Confession just replaces a flesh and blood Pope for a Paper pope. Instead of one man being the authority(Pope) the opinions of many men are put on paper to be the authority.(paper pope) I don't think we(as Christians) are ever going to relinquish our rights to seek communion with God on our own to having a man made authority tell us what our communion with God must look like. The horse is out of the barn on this one,imo. Protestantism means "pro testifying" and testifying means telling your own story, not confessing a story the authorities tell you that you must believe. Will we have unity? Surely...every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.....but I don't think I need to end that statement with every tongue will confess that the Augsburg Confession is the Truth.

Pure relationship....Jesus didn't come to highlight the divide between man's understanding and God but to bridge it.

Protestants talk about the Pope in ways Catholics never do, as a sign of authority, whereas Catholics speak of the Pope as a symbol of unity. Protestants often talk about him as though he churns out bible interpretations and prints the latest dogma to be believed.

The one thing that I respect about (many, most) Lutherans is the fact that they still hold onto the idea that there is truth out there which is definable and obtainable. It has become entirely unfashionable and even offensive for Christians to profess they believe anything with certainty. Most protestants want everyone to agree to disagree and not assert that some things are absolutely true.

When I say or someone says that Catholics have the fullness of truth, are right in all matters of dogma and are the true Church in its completeness- you are looked upon as a jerk for actually believing something... rather than politely pandering to the subjectivist view that all Christians are the full Church, there are no visible signs of unity and that we can't be sure about anything except what matters for salvation, even though we can't agree about what those are.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Catholics certainly aren't denominations, but certainly are one of the more arrogant factions.. I guess I can't complain, I'm not sure how much interest I can have in an organization who's main business is glorifying men and women into statues/saints.

 

[kevlite2020]

you said you didn't care for denominations

umm I did. Not understanding what you're getting at...

That is what unity is. Christians often confuse tolerance for each other with unity.

So everyone saying, "I'm right and unless everyone agrees with me we won't have unity," is unity?

This thread is just way too confusing for me. Sorry if I'm derailing at all Ish... I just cannot fathom how denominations are a good thing. I'm so sick of hearing about people being like, "Okay you love Jesus, that's cool and all, but YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!"

 

[Apollo Celestio]

It could be a good chance to get educated on the origin on all these denominations and see if you can find a common thread. In our day, we (Protestant tradition) people are finding them increasingly useless in being a Christian and functioning as a church. Your more high church brands have more loyalty (as demonstrated in the thread) and your more apostolic branches are still saying the same thing.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Catholics certainly aren't denominations, but certainly are one of the more arrogant factions..

...as I was saying... we are "arrogant" for not believing new theologies. We also aren't a faction, since it was the Reformation that broke with us.

I guess I can't complain, I'm not sure how much interest I can have in an organization who's main business is glorifying men and women into statues/saints.

You were saying something about arrogance? The business is to save souls.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

It could be a good chance to get educated on the origin on all these denominations and see if you can find a common thread. In our day, we (Protestant tradition) people are finding them increasingly useless in being a Christian and functioning as a church. Your more high church brands have more loyalty (as demonstrated in the thread) and your more apostolic branches are still saying the same thing.

We've been saying the same thing since it came from the apostles' mouths. Many within the protestant tradition are packaging trends with an easy understanding of the way Christians should live to attract money while convincing themselves they are saving souls because someone calls himself a Christian.

The road to salvation is narrow. It requires the willful cooperation of the destruction of the old self and the desire to live a life in Christ. But what most people are selling are rock concerts in Church, prosperity gospel, entertainment with supposed tongues and prosphesies and motivational material that has been Christianized.

People want to objectify the faith they want to 'get something out of it'. They demand that Christianity give them something pragmatic and useful to them right now.

The way of salvation is painful but fulfilling. What most people are pandering today are mere distractions, distractions to fill the void caused by a wicked belief that the real truth can't be known or professed and that there is no real bread of life available for us here.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

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So everyone saying, "I'm right and unless everyone agrees with me we won't have unity," is unity?

"We believe..." is unity. "We agree to disagree" is tolerance.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

...as I was saying... we are "arrogant" for not believing new theologies. We also aren't a faction, since it was the Reformation that broke with us.



You were saying something about arrogance? The business is to save souls.

Maybe I'm seeing a biased source, but often times the "news" has nothing to do with that, making people saints, and "papal visits" and what not. Seems more like a celebrity than anything else. Also, call yourself what you want, I'm using my own labeling system. I call you a faction of Christianity..

We've been saying the same thing since it came from the apostles' mouths. Many within the protestant tradition are packaging trends with an easy understanding of the way Christians should live to attract money while convincing themselves they are saving souls because someone calls himself a Christian.

A lot of Catholic doctrine has nothing to do with what the apostles taught. The reformation was not the plot of demons if God is in control.

The road to salvation is narrow. It requires the willful cooperation of the destruction of the old self and the desire to live a life in Christ. But what most people are selling are rock concerts in Church, prosperity gospel, entertainment with supposed tongues and prosphesies and motivational material that has been Christianized.

I agree. I say this a lot, but people are emphasizing worship "services" and bowing down to cultural trends so people have fun in church, when that's not what it's about.

People want to objectify the faith they want to 'get something out of it'. They demand that Christianity give them something pragmatic and useful to them right now.

I find that most humans fall for this, including myself. We forget what God's done and the "big picture" and slip up and slip up. You meant heretical doctrines though, like indulgences (or is it just one big swear jar?) and prosperity preaching.

The way of salvation is painful but fulfilling. What most people are pandering today are mere distractions, distractions to fill the void caused by a wicked belief that the real truth can't be known or professed and that there is no real bread of life available for us here

Agreed.. who exactly can we blame for this continuing growing pile of crap people need to sift through to find the truth? Thank the Lord the gospel is simple to understand. Not sure what it has to do with being a catholic, but that's probably the whole paradigm difference.

 

[Rhamiel]

Catholics certainly aren't denominations, but certainly are one of the more arrogant factions.. I guess I can't complain, I'm not sure how much interest I can have in an organization who's main business is glorifying men and women into statues/saints.

we are honest
if two groups teach differant things, well each group is going to say that the other is wrong
people just like to single out the Catholics is all, even in this thread the Catholics have recieved a lot more criticism then the EO, guess some people have personal vendettas to adress

 

[Apollo Celestio]

It's the same as atheists who only attack Christianity and not Islam. It's exposure. Personal vendettas may or may not be a part of that formula, but not in my case. I'm pointing out what I see.

 

[jameseb]

people just like to single out the Catholics is all, even in this thread the Catholics have recieved a lot more criticism then the EO

Hey, don't drag me into this.

However, I will address one particular thing that I read earlier in the thread about saints - the RC and EO don't "worship" saints or their icons. We don't consider them demi-gods or the like. What some do, however, is ask the saints to pray for them (and not pray to the saint)... much like you might ask a family member, or a friend here on CF or at church to also pray for you. A few Protestants churches---okay, quite a few---either ignorantly or dishonestly portray it as "saint-worship".

 

[Rhamiel]

Hey, don't drag me into this. .

my point was, every Church and denomination has doctrines that they think are correct and that others are mistaken about
but the Catholics are the ones who get called out for thinking that way

 

[radhead]

Denominations are immature believers' ways of making the Christian life difficult. Focusing on them is a sign that the person is spiritually weak.

 

[radhead]

Denominations are immature believers' ways of making the Christian life difficult. Focusing on them is a sign that the person is spiritually weak.

 

[Wren]

Hey, don't drag me into this.

However, I will address one particular thing that I read earlier in the thread about saints - the RC and EO don't "worship" saints or their icons. We don't consider them demi-gods or the like. What some do, however, is ask the saints to pray for them (and not pray to the saint)... much like you might ask a family member, or a friend here on CF or at church to also pray for you. A few Protestants churches---okay, quite a few---either ignorantly or dishonestly portray it as "saint-worship".

Catholics themselves have portrayed it as praying to saints, to me. This area is heavily Catholic, so I've been around quite a few Catholics. At least two Catholic former coworkers told me that they pray to saints. They described the prayers. One of them prayed to a saint when she was in busy/hectic traffic and told me what she said. I wonder if part of the problem isn't just Protestant churches that are misrepresenting Catholicism, but also some Catholics who, apparently, don't understand their own religion. (this is no dig at Catholics, but I find it confusing...I'm obviously not Catholic.) I can't speak about EO churches and their members, though, because I don't know anyone (other than one professor) who goes to an EO church in this area.

 

[Im_A]

Anyone wanna clear this up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination

A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.

To me...its the religious sub-culture of Christianity when the older and more traditional denominations are the pop-culture of Christianity.