Syrian Coins Bearing Cross and muhammad insignia

[SanFrank]

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other. Is this irrefutable proof that the word muhammadun means "praised man of god" which could only be jesus? (muslims cannot praise a man)

 

[Beechwell]

Well, for starters you'd also have to prove that muhammadun always refers to the same entitiy, and that the islamic ban to praise anyone beside God does indeed also refer to such honorary titles or names.

Maybe muhammadun was a title for priests in the Syrian Christian communities, and the Mohammed of the Koran was one such priest, or at least referred to as such (just speculating, I don't know nearly enough about religion at that time and place).

 

[Arthra]

Coins are certainly an interesting study..

At sometime early in the history of the U.S. Spanish coins were used in our currency..

When Syria came under the Caliphs it propably used the Byzantine coins for awhile..

A Christian civil service was inherited by the Caliphs.. so my specualtion is there might have been a time when some of the Christian or Byzantine coins were still used for awhile or amalgamated with Islamic usages..

Here you'll see where the Umayyads copied Byzantine coins:

The Arab-Byzantine "Three Standing Imperial Figures" Dinar From The Time Of Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd al-Malik, 72-74 AH / 692-694 CE

"The discussion above highlights various stages of development from the prototype Byzantine to Arab-Byzantine coinage. The initial stage was the elimination of crosses present in the Byzantine prototype coins, but keeping everything else intact. In the subsequent stage, crosses as well as Byzantine formula were removed and instead Arabic formula, i.e., the shahada, was introduced. For the sake of comparison, see Arab-Byzantine imitation of one and two "standing imperial figures" gold solidi where the imitation was confined only to removal or mutiliation of the crosses, keeping everything else almost the same."

All this shows is that the Umayyads retained some of the images of the earlier Byzantine coins and eventually replaced the Christian motiffs with Islamic usages such as the Shahada..

Even a king of Mercia in Britain incprporated or copied the Muslim Dinar:

A mancus / gold dinar of the king Offa of Mercia, copied from the dinars of the Abbasid Caliphate (774); probably unintentionally, it still includes the Arabic text Muhammad is the Apostle of God.
Qiblah of imam Mustansir in Fatemid masjid of Cairo showing Kalema-tut-shahadat 'la-ilaha-'

One of the earliest surviving translations of the Shahadah into a foreign language is in Greek, from the reign of al-Walid I (86–96 AH, 705–715 CE): Οὐκ ἔστι[ν θεὸς εἰ μὴ ὁ θεὸς μόνος·] Μααμὲ[τ ἀπόστολος θεοῦ] (Ouk esti[n theos ei mē ho theos monos;] Maame[t apostolos theou]).[4] "There is no god except for God alone; Muhammad is the Apostle of God."; i.e. "Allah", the Arabic word for "God", is translated as ὁ θεὸς and Muhammad is transliterated as Μααμὲτ.
The right photo shows aux.

See:

Shahada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Under Grace]

I have not seen a response to SanFrank's question.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I have not seen a response to SanFrank's question.

LOL, I am not seeing the Cross, where is it?

 

[Under Grace]

LOL, I am not seeing the Cross, where is it?

On the obverse of the bottom coin, I see a person holding a long cross on either hand. On the obverse of the top coin, a similar but shorter cross.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Didn't realize images were clickable...

 

[ApplePie7]

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other. Is this irrefutable proof that the word muhammadun means "praised man of god" which could only be jesus? (muslims cannot praise a man)

Nice work, brother...!

Indeed, there are numerous coins which relate the term 'Muhammad' to the Christian Jesus Christ. Since the term was never a proper name initially, it merely was used as a reference to Jesus Christ.

These early coins, and even the inscriptions on the Islamic Dome of the Rock, prove quite convincingly, that the term 'Muhammad' referred to Jesus Christ.

 

[elwill]

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other. Is this irrefutable proof that the word muhammadun means "praised man of god" which could only be jesus? (muslims cannot praise a man)

who needs a proof that " mohammed" means " praised man of God " ?

we (arabs and muslims) allready knows that this name means praised man of God

or did i missed something

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

or did i missed something

The connection of the CROSS!!! How do you connect Muhammad to the Cross?

 

[elwill]

The connection of the CROSS!!! How do you connect Muhammad to the Cross?

i don't want to make blind guessing

if i used my imagination , so may be the connection is about " those who followed jesus waiting someone called mohammed

my honest openion , this thread proof nothing for both of us

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Why would they put a prediction on a coin rather than what is already present and known? OP says you can not praise a man.

 

[elwill]

Why would they put a prediction on a coin rather than what is already present and known? OP says you can not praise a man.

i don't know what the meaning which come to your mind when you read the word praise

but praising Prophet Muhammad is a rewardable deed for it is considered as an obedience to Allah the One who ordered us to glorify His Prophet. So by praising, glorifying and honouring Prophet Muhammad we are obeying Allah.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other. Is this irrefutable proof that the word muhammadun means "praised man of god" which could only be jesus? (muslims cannot praise a man)

It almost looks like the Arabic word of Allah on the back upsidedown, out its turned the other way to look like an M.

 

[ApplePie7]

i don't want to make blind guessing

if i used my imagination , so may be the connection is about " those who followed jesus waiting someone called mohammed

my honest openion , this thread proof nothing for both of us

The historical evidence is squarely against you on all fronts, brother Elwill…

Observe:

1) Classic Arabic lexicography tells us that the term “Muhammad” was never a proper name at the time that the Koran was written. It was a participle, (i.e. combining adjective and verb). Think of it as a salutation.

2) The four times that the term “Muhammad” appears in the Koran, it is fully embedded in Biblical material, up to, and including, Jesus’ Parable of the Growing Seed, which, outside of the Koran, appears only in Mark’s Gospel, chapter four.

3) Koranically, all 68 root derivatives (from which “Muhammad” was also derived); pertain directly to the praising of deity, only.

4) Early coins from this period show Christian crosses along side of the term “Muhammad” – clearly signifying their understanding that “Muhammad” refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

5) The inscriptions on the Islamic ‘Dome of the Rock’ tell us plainly that “Muhammad” is Jesus Christ, son of Mary.


This mountain of historical physical evidence simply cannot be discarded.

Face the facts….Islam has this completely and utterly wrong.

Islam reveres the wrong “Muhammad”.

The original “Muhammad” (i.e. Praised One) has always been the Biblical Jesus Christ!

 

[Arthra]

Friends,

Read my post above.. these coins were a produced after Damascus fell which was briefly before the Caliphate of Omar.. THey were minted later under the Umayyads.

The initial post didn't site the origin of the photos.. which is

VCoins - Ancient Coins - Byzantium Coins - Wolfgang Leimenstoll

and you'll note the description of the coin?

Arab-Byzantine / Umayyad Imperial Image, AE Fals Standing Emperor Pseudo-Damascus mint ( ca 685-690 )
obv. Standing Emperor holding long cross and gl. cruc.

So these coins were minted or produced under the Umayyad caliphate and NOT DURING THE HIJRA OR PRIOR TO THAT but clearly under the Umayyads. The opening post is a pure fabrication by SanFrank:

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other

 

[Under Grace]

Friends,

Read my post above.. these coins were a produced after Damascus fell which was briefly before the Caliphate of Omar.. THey were minted later under the Umayyads.

The initial post didn't site the origin of the photos.. which is

VCoins - Ancient Coins - Byzantium Coins - Wolfgang Leimenstoll

and you'll note the description of the coin?

Arab-Byzantine / Umayyad Imperial Image, AE Fals Standing Emperor Pseudo-Damascus mint ( ca 685-690 )
obv. Standing Emperor holding long cross and gl. cruc.

So these coins were minted or produced under the Umayyad caliphate and NOT DURING THE HIJRA OR PRIOR TO THAT but clearly under the Umayyads. The opening post is a pure fabrication by SanFrank:

During and before muhammad's hijra, coins were minted bearing the cross on one side and mhmd مهمد on the other

I found other coins bearing the same images, these were after the Hijra. See this new post "Syrian Coins Prove "muhammad" meant Jesus Christ." Coming after the Hijra is more damaging for islam since the descriptive term mhmd implies the word was not a name of a man but descriptive of the Cross.

 

[Under Grace]

The historical evidence is squarely against you on all fronts, brother Elwill…

Observe:

1) Classic Arabic lexicography tells us that the term “Muhammad” was never a proper name at the time that the Koran was written. It was a participle, (i.e. combining adjective and verb). Think of it as a salutation.

2) The four times that the term “Muhammad” appears in the Koran, it is fully embedded in Biblical material, up to, and including, Jesus’ Parable of the Growing Seed, which, outside of the Koran, appears only in Mark’s Gospel, chapter four.

3) Koranically, all 68 root derivatives (from which “Muhammad” was also derived); pertain directly to the praising of deity, only.

4) Early coins from this period show Christian crosses along side of the term “Muhammad” – clearly signifying their understanding that “Muhammad” refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

5) The inscriptions on the Islamic ‘Dome of the Rock’ tell us plainly that “Muhammad” is Jesus Christ, son of Mary.


This mountain of historical physical evidence simply cannot be discarded.

Face the facts….Islam has this completely and utterly wrong.

Islam reveres the wrong “Muhammad”.

The original “Muhammad” (i.e. Praised One) has always been the Biblical Jesus Christ!

After picking up the book "The hidden origins of islam" I agree.

 

[b&wpac4]

Am I understanding correctly that the entire argument rests on the idea that it is not believed Muhammad was a proper name but a description?

 

[alhamdullilah]

This is how you write Muhammed محمد so this nonsense can stop from here.