Does, 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' mean homosexual sex is okay with Jesus?

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Autumnleaf

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Hmmm... If "love your neighbor as yourself" is the main commandment that sums up all God's laws, then it shows that homosexuality isn't a sin, because homosexuality doesn't go against it. :)

It does if you don't love your neighbor in that way.
 
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The Penitent Man

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Hmmm... If "love your neighbor as yourself" is the main commandment that sums up all God's laws, then it shows that homosexuality isn't a sin, because homosexuality doesn't go against it. :)

LOVE =/= HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS

Not on my watch will you attempt to distort the Golden Rule like that. Not while I'm here ....

:nono:
 
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*Starlight*

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LOVE =/= HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS

Not on my watch will you distort the Golden Rule like that. Not while I'm here ....

:nono:

It seems you don't understand my post at all. I didn't say that "love" in the golden rule refers to homosexual relations. Here's what I meant:

1. All God's law is summed up by "love your neighbor as yourself".

2. Therefore, if something's a sin (against God's law), it conflicts with loving your neighbor as yourself.

3. Homosexuality doesn't conflict with loving your neighbor as yourself.

4. Therefore, homosexuality isn't a sin.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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That veers dangerously close to the discussion about whether or not one must acknowledge Christ to be saved, which is a discussion I really don't care to get into now... But essentially, yes. An athiest who lives by the "golden rule" can be as "God loving" as any Christian, at least so far as their acts and attitudes are concerned. Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? That was kind of the point of it.

As to sexual immorality/loving others... I'm not sure what your saying.

It isn't the sex part, specifically, that is the "loving others", its the arriving at the conclusion that its OK that is the "loving others" part. I thought I explained it in the simplest possible terms a few pages back. Sexual immorality exists, and, to me, its pretty easy to determine. "Would I want someone doing that to me if I were them?" If the answer is no, then it would be immoral for me to do so. Thats all there is to it.

And it works for anything. Not just to determine sexual morality, but for ANY moral question... ask yourself honestly, if you are considering an act that will effect other people, and you cannot honestly say that, were you in the other person's position, you would want it done to you, then don't do it, because its immoral.

Now, lest obtuse people who like to argue for the sake of arguing butt in here, yes, there are occasions, usually to do with "greatest good for greatest number", or self defence or defence of others, where things get a bit more complex. However, the basic paradigm holds. If you always use it as your guiding principle, just simple little "would I want it done to me if our roles were reversed?", and you can't go to far wrong.

Moral duty deism. Reminds me of that book on religion. But the author wasn't concerned with salvation, just duty/moral duty. By that measure, yeah it works. But there are still issues when you actually have a God who loves and who you can love.
 
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Autumnleaf

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Not amongst the monogomous ones, its not. And I have never, not once, endorsed or suggested homosexuals should be anything other than monogomous.

So if you want to rail against people who aren't in MONOGOMOUS relationships, be my guest. So long as you do so to hetero and homosexual fairly, you won't hear a word of dissent from me. However, singling homosexuals out, when heterosexuals are just as likely to be non monogomous, is a double standard.

I've met many homosexual men and I have yet to meet one who claimed he ever wanted to be in a monogamous relationship. Heterosexuals will usually at least lie about that. Homosexuals, men, tend to be honest. They know what they want and its not a spouse.

I also said, pretty plainly, that exposing someone to an STD without their informed consent would be a breach of the love eac other as yourself commandment (would I want someone to have sex with me without informing me of the risk of an STD if they had one? No? Then its wrong for me to do it to others). But again, this is wrong for ANYONE not just homosexuals.

Once again, I have yet to see any logically coherent reason to consider homosexuality a sin.

Non-monogamy? Sure. STD transmission? Sure. But neither of these are synonymous with homosexuality, and I'd appreciate it if you and all others would stop acting as if they were.

Homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says it is. The STD thing is icing on the cake. Homosexual men are the most promiscuous of all sexually active members of society. Hence, the incidence of VD among them is huge. We can make pretend homosexuals just want to be monogamous and left alone but the reality is very different. Please tell me you already knew that. Up until now I though only well meaning Christians were clueless about such things.
 
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The Penitent Man

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It seems you don't understand my post at all. I didn't say that "love" in the golden rule refers to homosexual relations. Here's what I meant:

1. All God's law is summed up by "love your neighbor as yourself".

2. Therefore, if something's a sin (against God's law), it conflicts with loving your neighbor as yourself.

3. Homosexuality doesn't conflict with loving your neighbor as yourself.

4. Therefore, homosexuality isn't a sin.

Except it is a sin. You forgot that part.

I feel like I'm being told that Jesus was fired out of a cannon instead of crucified ... :o
 
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Apollo Celestio

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It seems you don't understand my post at all. I didn't say that "love" in the golden rule refers to homosexual relations. Here's what I meant:

1. All God's law is summed up by "love your neighbor as yourself".

2. Therefore, if something's a sin (against God's law), it conflicts with loving your neighbor as yourself.

3. Homosexuality doesn't conflict with loving your neighbor as yourself.

4. Therefore, homosexuality isn't a sin.

False. There is a greater command in the Christian's world. Blasphemy is certainly a sin, but who does that hurt?
 
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KarateCowboy

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"homosexual sex" does not exist. Plants are sexual. Try getting them to have "homosexual sex". It can't happen. I'm just trying to point out: in order to come to the truth we have to see things clearly. In order to see things clearly we have to be stern in the discriminating aspects of language and definition.
 
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KarateCowboy

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It seems you don't understand my post at all. I didn't say that "love" in the golden rule refers to homosexual relations. Here's what I meant:

1. All God's law is summed up by "love your neighbor as yourself".
Well you're close. You have half the picture.

Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV) Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The first is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind". So we must also show love to God. How do we know we love God? If we keep His commandments. We express our love for God by obeying Him.

It's also important to note that Jesus says "all the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments". Some translate it "Stand on these two commandments". That is, they are the foundation. A foundation is for building something bigger on. It's much, much more than just those two things, though they are the basics.
 
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Autumnleaf

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"homosexual sex" does not exist. Plants are sexual. Try getting them to have "homosexual sex". It can't happen. I'm just trying to point out: in order to come to the truth we have to see things clearly. In order to see things clearly we have to be stern in the discriminating aspects of language and definition.

How would you use language to describe what others call homosexual sex?
 
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KarateCowboy

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How would you use language to describe what others call homosexual sex?
GOOD question. I'll do my best to answer:

Sodomy.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

As a linguist, it's weird how we tend to make up words for stuff we already have words for.
 
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KCKID

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I've met many homosexual men and I have yet to meet one who claimed he ever wanted to be in a monogamous relationship. Heterosexuals will usually at least lie about that. Homosexuals, men, tend to be honest. They know what they want and its not a spouse.

While what you say can, of course, be true, I also know this to be true of heterosexuals. While in my teens so many of my peers viewed females as sex objects ...not as potential life partners. They knew what they wanted and it was not a spouse. I doubt that situation has changed any since my teenage years.

Homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says it is.

One more time ...nowhere does the Bible say "homosexuality is a sin." Many Christians, however, say "The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin." There's a difference.

The STD thing is icing on the cake. Homosexual men are the most promiscuous of all sexually active members of society. Hence, the incidence of VD among them is huge. We can make pretend homosexuals just want to be monogamous and left alone but the reality is very different. Please tell me you already knew that. Up until now I though only well meaning Christians were clueless about such things.

I can't argue the above because I don't have the appropriate information. What I do know, however, is that STDs would be rampant with or without homosexuality. STDs have been around since year dot. Using such to make your case against homosexuality is intentionally misleading.
 
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KCKID

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Autumnleaf said:
How would you use language to describe what others call homosexual sex?

GOOD question. I'll do my best to answer:

Sodomy.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Um ...was that describing homosexual sex or heterosexual sex ...? :confused:
 
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Fenny the Fox

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Hi. Gay guy who believes in monogamy. What of it?
We do exist. And, as it appears, the younger crowd is much more likely to feel this way, as well. At least, that has been my experience (and I know a LOT of gay guys).
 
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KarateCowboy

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Um ...was that describing homosexual sex or heterosexual sex ...? :confused:
In biological terms "sex" means "male + female" intrinsically. "homosexual sex" does not exist. "Heterosexual sex" is redundant.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Hi. Gay guy who believes in monogamy. What of it?
We do exist. And, as it appears, the younger crowd is much more likely to feel this way, as well. At least, that has been my experience (and I know a LOT of gay guys).

My twin brother says most gay guys are.. well, very promiscuous. (twin brother is gay and very pro gay)
 
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Fenny the Fox

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My twin brother says most gay guys are.. well, very promiscuous. (twin brother is gay and very pro gay)

Ever met a frat boy? They are described the same.
Met a typical guy in his 20s? Same.

But, as with any group, it depends who you are around. Sure, there are many gay men who are very promiscuous. Just as there are many heterosexual men who are very promiscuous. It comes down to who you know, who you "hang with".
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Grammar nazis have invaded this thread!

Grammar_Natzee_by_dinyctis.jpg


Fox guy, I get your point. College kids tend to be ..harlots (is that a bad word?). >_>
And if you're a man who is a harlot, you're "cool".. It's stupid. I know.
 
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