Is homosexuality a sin?

[Autumnleaf]

I don't see how it can be with all the openly homosexual church leaders we seem to have these days.

 

[Jase]

Hmm, I don't think this topic has been discussed yet on these boards....


And no, it isn't.

 

[Shrader25]

Ahh...Autumnleaf, a topic dear to thee I see. Nah, it isn't a sin. They are God's people just like you and me.

 

[shinbits]

according to the Bible, yes. according to liberal Christians, athiests and a few other religions; no.

END THREAD.

 

[nChrist]

I don't see how it can be with all the openly homosexual church leaders we seem to have these days.

Going to church doesn't make one a Christian, and the same is true for being a church leader. I think this is the third thread on this same topic within the last several weeks.

If you use God's Word as the authority - YES, it's a sin.

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Genesis 18:19-23 KJV For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Genesis 18:19-23 AMP For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him. 20 And the Lord said, Because the shriek [of the sins] of Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is exceedingly grievous, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether [as vilely and wickedly] as is the cry of it which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. 22 Now the [two] men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked?

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Genesis 19:4-7 KJV But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Genesis 19:4-7 AMP But before they lay down, the men of the city of Sodom, both young and old, all the men from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know (be intimate with) them. 6 And Lot went out of the door to the men and shut the door after him 7 And said, I beg of you, my brothers, do not behave so wickedly.

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Leviticus 18:22-25 KJV Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Leviticus 18:22-25 AMP You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. [I Cor. 6:9, 10.] 23 Neither shall you lie with any beast and defile yourself with it; neither shall any woman yield herself to a beast to lie with it; it is confusion, perversion, and degradedly carnal. 24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for in all these things the nations are defiled which I am casting out before you. 25 And the land is defiled; therefore I visit the iniquity of it upon it, and the land itself vomits out her inhabitants.

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Leviticus 20:13 KJV If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 AMP If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

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Romans 1:22-28 KJV Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 1:22-28 AMP Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves]. 23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it). [Jer. 2:11.] 26 For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one, 27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution. 28 And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

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1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:9 AMP Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

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Ephesians 4:18-19 KJV Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Ephesians 4:18-19 AMP Their moral understanding is darkened and their reasoning is beclouded. [They are] alienated (estranged, self-banished) from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the ignorance (the want of knowledge and perception, the willful blindness) that is deep-seated in them, due to their hardness of heart [to the insensitiveness of their moral nature]. 19 In their spiritual apathy they have become callous and past feeling and reckless and have abandoned themselves [a prey] to unbridled sensuality, eager and greedy to indulge in every form of impurity [that their depraved desires may suggest and demand].

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Ephesians 5:11-12 KJV And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Ephesians 5:11-12 AMP Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret.

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1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Timothy 1:9-10 AMP Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, 10 [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine

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Jude 1:6-10 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:6-10 AMP And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place--these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day. 7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [ Gen. 19.] 8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body, scorn and reject authority and government, and revile and libel and scoff at [heavenly] glories (the glorious ones). 9 But when [even] the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, judicially argued (disputed) about the body of Moses, he dared not [presume to] bring an abusive condemnation against him, but [simply] said, The Lord rebuke you! [Zech. 3:2.] 10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts--by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish).

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[Fenny the Fox]

Homosexuality? No.

Same-sex sexual activity? Possibly.
Some would say "yes, it is". Some would say "no, it isn't". But none of us are God, and can only express our interpretation of the Bible. But, hey, we shall know it when we are called before God.
So, why spend so much time debating it here and now? Will it change anything?

 

[QuakerOats]

I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, no. I temper my faith with reason, a trait I believe God embodies, which finds no justification against homosexuality. I think the 'clobber verses,' as they're often called, are certainly telling, but not so much of God as of the particular culture or cultures of their authors.

 

[Macx]

Sexual preference is what it is. . . . can't be sinful, could be a mental illness until homosexuals got it taken off the books (actually just one book, the DSM). in this modern era where homosexuality is no longer listed among the neurosis, homosexuality hasn't changed in its causes and nature.

Homosexual activity is a sin, clearly defined as such by the Bible. That said, everybody sins and there aren't big sins and little sins. It is hypocritical to lift homosexual action up as a more extreme sin than . . . say, envy. In the same way that it is not criminal to want to have sex with young children, but it is criminal to carry out the act . . . Homosexuality is not a sin, acting on it is. Cue sophistry and semantic babble by the other side ... . Anyway, either you believe in the religion or ya don't. No amount of making believe this and such word in the Greek mean something other than what they mean, changes the truth that homosexual acts are sin. I'll say it again, sin is sin, any unforgiven sin is enough to bar one from heaven . . but there is no sin that can't be forgiven. There will be homosexuals in heaven, there will even be scum like me . . . the mercy of Christ is, big.

 

[Robin Shawn]

What good can come from homosexuality? It is unclean and unnatural and doesn't bear the fruit of beautiful children and a wholesome family. Homosexuality is a life of perversion and guilt...guilt if the conscience isn't fully dead. There can be no true happiness between homosexuals, as their consciences, if there is any life therein, will testify. I am speaking as someone who has had homosexual tendencies. Here is the natural way that God created: man transmits life to woman. Among homosexuals that life perishes and dies. That is why it is unclean. And that bit about a person who has homosexual desire not having a choice in the matter is false, and I speak from experience. So if you are involved in this sin, know that it will lead to great unhappiness, and repent. Save yourself a lot of grief.

 

[Zebra1552]

I don't see how it can be with all the openly homosexual church leaders we seem to have these days.

Define 'homosexuality'.

 

[Macx]

302 Sexual deviations
This category is for individuals whose sexual interests are directed primarily toward objects other than people of the opposite sex, toward sexual acts not usually associated with coitus, or toward coitus performed under bizarre circumstances as in necrophilia, pedophilia, sexual sadism, and fetishism. Even though many find their practices distasteful, they remain unable to substitute normal sexual behavior for them. This diagnosis is not appropriate for individuals who perform deviant sexual acts because normal sexual objects are not available to them.​

302.0 Homosexuality​

302.1 Fetishism
302.2 Pedophilia
302.3 Transvestitism

302.4 Exhibitionism

302.5* Voyeurism*
302.6* Sadism*
302.7* Masochism*
302.8 Other sexual deviation​

​

[302.9 Unspecified sexual deviation]

DSM II - http://www.psychiatryonline.com/DSMPDF/dsm-ii.pdf​

 

[Fenny the Fox]

DSM II - http://www.psychiatryonline.com/DSMPDF/dsm-ii.pdf​

Which was published from 1968 until 1973, when homosexuality was removed from the list. So...that citation is nearly 40 yrs out of date...

 

[_JJM]

Is homosexuality a sin? I don't see how it can be with all the openly homosexual church leaders we seem to have these days.

Yes, it is sin. The openly homosexual "church leaders" have distorted and ignored scriptures that say so to suit their own desires in life, not that of the God of the Bible.

Romans 1:24-27
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

 

[LittleNipper]

I don't see how it can be with all the openly homosexual church leaders we seem to have these days.

There are a "lot" of openly alcoholic ministers but that doesn't change the fact that being drunk is sinful.

 

[Macx]

Which was published from 1968 until 1973, when homosexuality was removed from the list. So...that citation is nearly 40 yrs out of date...

I already adressed that in this thread. Homosexuality has not changed, it is what it was. Getting enough homosexuals on some APA board to have the books changed, doesn't do a thing about reality. Once a neurosis, always a neurosis, no amount of wishful thinking or re-writing can change reality.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

I already adressed that in this thread. Homosexuality has not changed, it is what it was. Getting enough homosexuals on some APA board to have the books changed, doesn't do a thing about reality. Once a neurosis, always a neurosis, no amount of wishful thinking or re-writing can change reality.

Interesting, that. Neuroses are defined by this board, yet if the board claims to have been mistaken, it can then still classify as a disorder?

Let's the board made the holding of religion a neurotic disorder. Given the definition of neurosis, this could be done, technically.

a mental and emotional disorder that affects only part of the personality, is accompanied by a less distorted perception of reality than in a psychosis, does not result in disturbance of the use of language, and is accompanied by various physical, physiological, and mental disturbances (as visceral symptoms, anxieties, or phobias)

Merriam-Webster

This would make it a neurosis then. And, in several years the board says, "please forgive us, we were wrong. Holding religion does not constitute a disorder."

Would you then still hold that it is a neurosis?

But, why rely on outdated worldly sources (which no longer even support your position), anyway?

 

[jayem]

If what church leaders do aren't sins, then I guess neither are adultery or child molestation.

 

[Macx]

Let's the board made the holding of religion a neurotic disorder. Given the definition of neurosis, this could be done, technically.

What a splendid straw man ya have there. . . . now back to the shallow end of the pool with ya.

But, why rely on outdated worldly sources (which no longer even support your position), anyway?

Because the facts surrounding the change in the text support my position, even though the point was more specifically to provide a definition of homosexuality in the context of the conversation. Nice when I can cut both ways.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

What a splendid straw man ya have there. . . . now back to the shallow end of the pool with ya.

Exactly how does my hypothetical become a straw man?

 

[Macx]

Exactly how does my hypothetical become a straw man?

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia check it out.