"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

:o
Thank you for contributions maid...This parable tends to do that sometimes if we talk about the Jews in the NT.

I think the sabbatarian MJs fail to realize the Levitical Priesthood was joined with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin in the OT. That Priesthood is now obsolete in my view

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yeselves 'a father we are having the Abraham'.
For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God, out of the stones these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

John 8:44 "Ye out of a father, the Devil are, and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being pained in the Flame this."

1 Timothy 1:5



5Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Kinda fake it till ya make it thang. Those who follow the rituals are reminded of the qualities of God, much like eagle is a sign of strength, an owl a sign of wisdom. Those aren't their gods, they just are a reminder of the attributes of God. Not worth fighting over imo. It's part of the process but the end of law doesn't justify the means to get there. (pure heart, good conscience and faith unfeigned) boring as that is

 

[Lulav]

What is the point of this discussion anyway? It's not to edify anyone, it is another attempt to vilify Jews. You make that clear by first using a quote from someone you call an MJ. Yes there are those who call themselves MJ's but are also Anti-Semitic, I see you found one and couldn't wait to find an opportunity to use this quote in your obvious vendetta against Jews. You were doing this years ago Steve and you still are. This is no better than those who called out Crucify him! But that was one man, a man who came to die for his people, his nation, you instead want to crucify a whole people.

Trud Dat!
Did ya notice that parable was also directed towards these shifty characters

Matthew 3:7 Seeing yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees

I was talking specifically about these murderous corrupt Judean rulers[not the common Jews/Israelites] which were also in the audience Jesus was talking to in Luke 16

A thumbs up to that? Why can't you say the Judean rulers? By prefacing it with:

"MURDEROUS CORRUPT" you are purposely inciting hate here.

Thank you for contributions maid...This parable tends to do that sometimes if we talk about the Jews in the NT.

I think the sabbatarian MJs fail to realize the Levitical Priesthood was joined with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin in the OT. That Priesthood is now obsolete in my view

It's not about talking about the JEWS (and I notice here you have lumped them all together so you weren't really being specific as you claim), it's the way you do it. And you prove so by what you just said.

Sabbatarian MJ's? And since I am the only one that can be labeled that in here you must be addressing me. (But according to the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Sabbatarian, I am not one). No, I never realized that the Levitical Priesthood was joined with the tribes of Benjamin and Judah. What I do know is that when the kingdoms divided (the 13 of them) the ten in the north were named the Kingdom of Israel. And in the South you had the Kingdom of Judah.The tribe of Benjamin resided there and in fact Jerusalem resides in that territory. The Levites who served in the temple had portions of land in that kingdom but also previously in the kingdom of Israel. They had 48 cities in all. The Jews today who have kept the oracles of G-d and continue to are mainly from those three tribes, Levite, Judah and Benjamin, but there are others too from the Kingdom of Israel.

Not all the Sanhedrin was corrupt, but the High Priest was most likely not from Aarons' line as was set up by G-d in the wilderness. They were bought from Rome. Yes, Corruption always happened to the children of Israel whenever the gentiles stepped in. Same thing still happens today.

And yes, I do believe that the Levitical Priesthood has been 'done away with' in the former temple days but will be revived. But the apostles and followers of Yeshua/Jesus still went in obedience to the laws to the temple as required up until their death or the destruction of the temple which ever came first for each individual one. There are numerous examples throughout the NT, I can cite some if you'd like?

BTW. Did you know that Matthew, Jesus' disciple was a LEVITE?

 

[1whirlwind]

What? Where was the Levitical priesthood joined to Judah and Benjamin?

Aren't they distributed among all the tribes? Although, a consideration is that the Jews, (Judah and Benjamin), remained under the king of Judah and worshipped at the temple so maybe the majority of the priests remained with them. The other ten tribes were ruled by the king of Israel and worshipped calves. Of course....even Aaron wasn't innocent of that sin.

 

[1whirlwind]

What is the point of this discussion anyway? It's not to edify anyone, it is another attempt to vilify Jews. You make that clear by first using a quote from someone you call an MJ. Yes there are those who call themselves MJ's but are also Anti-Semitic, I see you found one and couldn't wait to find an opportunity to use this quote in your obvious vendetta against Jews. You were doing this years ago Steve and you still are. This is no better than those who called out Crucify him! But that was one man, a man who came to die for his people, his nation, you instead want to crucify a whole people.

Is that truly what you see?

You cannot rewrite history. What happened happened. The Bible clearly names those responsible and they were NOT God's chosen people. Were they "Jews?" Yes but they were NOT the Jews of the tribe of Judah.....

John 8:42-44 Jesus said unto them, "If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God: neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

8:47-48 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
​

They were "murderous and corrupt" and they are those that...."say they are Jews and ARE NOT." [Rev.2:9 and 3:9] Just as there are those that come in His name...pretending to be Christian...there are those that say they are Jews...and are not! Should that not be pointed out?

 

[Rick Otto]

Not all who are of Israel are Israel.
Not all who are of the anti-semites are anti-semite.
Semite of course, including Ismael & all his descendants.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Standing Up What? Where was the Levitical priesthood joined to Judah and Benjamin?

Aren't they distributed among all the tribes? Although, a consideration is that the Jews, (Judah and Benjamin), remained under the king of Judah and worshipped at the temple so maybe the majority of the priests remained with them. The other ten tribes were ruled by the king of Israel and worshipped calves. Of course....even Aaron wasn't innocent of that sin.

Thanks whirlwind......

Benjamin and the course of the Levites joined the tribe of Judah after the split of Israel.

Heck, those 2 Houses even fought against each other a few times [and is actually what appears to be symbolised in Revelation?]

Rotherham 1:5 Then arose the ancestral chiefs of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites,--even every one whose spirit God had aroused, to go up to build the house of Yahweh, which was in Jerusalem;

2 Chronicles 11:1 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he gathered of the house of Judah and Benjamin an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam.

Those 3 are also mentioned in Revelation 7:

Reve 7:4-8

1. Judah= "I will praise YHWH" 2. Reuben= "He looked on my humliation" 3. Gad= "In raid" 4. Asher= "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali= "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh= "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon= "He hears me" 8. Levi= "and obligated me" 9. Issachar= "Gave me hire"10. Zebulun= "a dowry" 11. Joseph= " he took away my reproach" 12. Benjamin= "by Son of His right hand"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not all who are of Israel are Israel.
Not all who are of the anti-semites are anti-semite.
Semite of course, including Ismael & all his descendants.

Since Abraham was a Hebrew, wouldn't that also make Ishmael part Hebrew?
In fact, both Isaac and Ishmael buried Abraham

http://www.christianforums.com/t7274448/
Ishmael returned...

Rotherham) Genesis 25:8 So Abraham breathed his last, and died, in a fine old age, old and satisfied,--and was gathered unto his people,
9 And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him, in the cave of Machpelah,--in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, which is over against Mamre

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Genesis 25:12 These the genealogical annals of Yishma`e'l son of 'Abraham whom Hagar the egyptian, maid-servant of Sarah gave birth for Abraham.
And these names of sons of Yishma`e'l in names of them, to genealogical annals of them. First born of Yishma`e'l N@bayowth. and-Qedar and-'Adb@'el, and-Mibsam and-Mishma` and-Duwmah and-Massa', Chadar and-Teyma', Y@tuwr, Naphiysh, and-Qed@mah

Yishma`e'l "God will hear"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

What is the point of this discussion anyway? It's not to edify anyone, it is another attempt to vilify Jews. You make that clear by first using a quote from someone you call an MJ. Yes there are those who call themselves MJ's but are also Anti-Semitic, I see you found one and couldn't wait to find an opportunity to use this quote in your obvious vendetta against Jews. You were doing this years ago Steve and you still are. This is no better than those who called out Crucify him! But that was one man, a man who came to die for his people, his nation, you instead want to crucify a whole people.

Sigh...........
A favorite commentator of mine was also labeled "anti-semite" because of his views of "Judah/Levi" of the Bible.
Just do a google search on "richman/lazarus" to find out how other Christian commentators view that parable

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page
ABRAHAM'S BOSOM

J Preston Eby, Eby minstry, Eby heresies, Eby writings, Preston Eby, Manifest Sons of God heresy, Latter Rain heresy

The anti-semitic MSOG movement that Eby claims to govern his ministry incorrectly and boldly appropriates the title "elect" from that of the remnant of Israel described during the Tribulation's Time of Jacob's Trouble, and applies it to themselves in true Replacement Theology fashion.

Eby's writing ministry includes a monthly message titled Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents
as well as a number of booklets on various subjects. We discuss this subject below.

Eby attempts to carry the OT priesthood in Israel to the current day church. This is classical Replacement Theology and incorrectly appropriates the program that God set up for Israel prior to the time of the Cross when Jesus Christ became our priest and mediator between man and God.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=LittleLambofJesus; Since Abraham was a Hebrew, wouldn't that also make Ishmael part Hebrew?

We might have to ask Lulav.
I guess you might be right, but which part?

The "anti-semite" stone is as easy to throw as the "heritic" stone it appears.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We might have to ask Lulav.
I guess you might be right, but which part?

The "anti-semite" stone is as easy to throw as the "heritic" stone it appears.

Over the years, I have grown used to be calling both

http://www.christianforums.com/t7448114-10/#post54283622

 

[Rick Otto]

A symptom of an apostate orthodoxy, I'd suppose.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A symptom of an apostate orthodoxy, I'd suppose.

tis the way of the beast........

2 Thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way, that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first.
And may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin, the Son of the destruction.

 

[Eucharisted]

I read thru a commentary some years back when I started translating this parable in Luke 16 and came across the 5 brothers mentioned.

How do others view these or who they are symbolizing?

According to the MJ commentary below, it was symbolizing the House/Nation of Judah.

Luke 16:28" For I am having Five Brothers that he may be testifying to them, that no also they may be coming into the place, this, of the torment".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

*snip*

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!

Whenever Jesus taught something, He would follow up with a parable to reinforce what He had just taught. Case in point: Luke 16:14-31.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Whenever Jesus taught something, He would follow up with a parable to reinforce what He had just taught. Case in point: Luke 16:14-31.

Thank you.
Could that "richman" be symbolizing the "man of sin/son of destruction" mentioned in 2 Thess 2

2 thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first and may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin the son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

Jeremiah 17:1 Sin of Y@huwdah written with a reed-pen of iron, in nail of corundum, being engrossed on tablet of the heart of them, and to horns of altars of ye, [2 Thess 2:3,4 Luke 16:24]

 

[Standing Up]

Aren't they distributed among all the tribes? Although, a consideration is that the Jews, (Judah and Benjamin), remained under the king of Judah and worshipped at the temple so maybe the majority of the priests remained with them. The other ten tribes were ruled by the king of Israel and worshipped calves. Of course....even Aaron wasn't innocent of that sin.

Thanks whirlwind......

Benjamin and the course of the Levites joined the tribe of Judah after the split of Israel.

Heck, those 2 Houses even fought against each other a few times [and is actually what appears to be symbolised in Revelation?]

Rotherham 1:5 Then arose the ancestral chiefs of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites,--even every one whose spirit God had aroused, to go up to build the house of Yahweh, which was in Jerusalem;

2 Chronicles 11:1 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he gathered of the house of Judah and Benjamin an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam.

Those 3 are also mentioned in Revelation 7:

Reve 7:4-8

1. Judah= "I will praise YHWH" 2. Reuben= "He looked on my humliation" 3. Gad= "In raid" 4. Asher= "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali= "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh= "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon= "He hears me" 8. Levi= "and obligated me" 9. Issachar= "Gave me hire"10. Zebulun= "a dowry" 11. Joseph= " he took away my reproach" 12. Benjamin= "by Son of His right hand"

Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

Well, I figure that is the Jews problem, as they are still trying to round up Priests for their new future temple, but since all the records were destroyed in the destruction of the Temple in ad70, I suppose they will have to use DNA to see which one them originated from the tribe of Levi

I did find this interesting tho. Levi is mention "8th" in order of the tribes mentioned in Revelation [tho he was born 3rd from Leah [Gene 29:34]

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

Coincidentaly, Reve 17:11 mentions the w-b as the "8th" which is of the 7. I am working on this now

Revelation 17:11 And the wild-beast which was, and not is, even he is the Eighth/ogdooV <3590>, and is of the Seven, and goeth into perdition {Levi is listed 8th in the order of Tribes Revelation]

Gene 29:34 And she becomes pregnant further and is giving birth a son.
And she is saying, "now the-once my man will be obligated to me, that I have borne him three sons." Therefore he called his name Leviy

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres something very interesting concerning parables.. notice in this parable they perceived Jesus speaking against "them" here...

Mark 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

And yet here the Lord speaks of not knowing this other parable but adds HOW THEN will ye know ALL PARABLES ?

Mark 4:14 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

Very good question

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Standing Up Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

The tribe of Levi was seperated to be a Pristhood for all of the OC Hebrew Israelites

But then came the split after Solomon and the tribe of Levi was joined to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
You need to study more on the the 12 Tribes me thinks

Reve 5:5 And one out of the elders saying to me "no be lamenting! behold! the Lion/lewn <3023> conquers, the one out of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, to open-up the scroll and the seven seals of it".
[Hosea 13:8/Reve 13:2]

 

[Fireinfolding]

Lamb...what do you do with these?

1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

genealogies
1) a genealogy, a record of descent or lineage

Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Wouldnt that be knowing Christ after the flesh whereas we are told not to know any man after the flesh, even Christ himself?

Even as Paul speaks of being of the tribe of Benjimen and that pertained to the flesh wherin he put no confidence in?