Do Charismatic/Pentecostal Christians lack discernment?

[Alpine]

Throngs of our youth are saved upon hearing a watered-down gospel, through a repeated prayer, told that the deal is done,(they are saved) and...well that's it really. "The deal is done." No calling from there on, save giving.

It's a good thing we have Brother Ruben to judge the hearts of these people as to whether they are really saved or not! What would we do without Brother Rubens amazing soul judging powers to help us know the truth?

 

[imperfectchristian]

It's a good thing we have Brother Ruben to judge the hearts of these people as to whether they are really saved or not! What would we do without Brother Rubens amazing soul judging powers to help us know the truth?

We would all be Calvinists?

 

[KingZzub]

Only if we were pre-destined to be.

 

[Brother-Ruben]

It's a good thing we have Brother Ruben to judge the hearts of these people as to whether they are really saved or not! What would we do without Brother Rubens amazing soul judging powers to help us know the truth?

And it's a good thing we have you for a laugh. =P I don't mean to judge people's standing with God.

 

[lismore]

If you have a church where the sick are not being healed, people are not getting free, words of knowledge are not flowing and prophetic encouragement is not being given, then the people in that church have utterly failed to discern the most important spirit in the Bible: THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Hey Ben

There is not a church within a hundred mile radius where that happens.

And the people are too scared of their leaders to rise up and hold them to account for the lack of God in the church.

 

[banish'd]

Haha! I was gonna' object with a "That is a VERY general question" when I saw "generally speaking that is." =P

Charismatic/Pentecostal Christians generally(very generally...I mean I almost feel judgemental) lack discernment - in the way I assume you mean it - because...

For the most part, Charismatics are [Soli Deo Gloria (Glory to God alone)] and don't have the least bit of interest in theology.QUOTE]

...or sound doctrine, for that matter! Mind you, I'm attacking the stereotype here. Throngs of our youth are saved upon hearing a watered-down gospel, through a repeated prayer, told that the deal is done,(they are saved) and...well that's it really. "The deal is done." No calling from there on, save giving.

Brother-Ruben,

Welcome to the forum.

This is the Charismatic Section of the forum, so if you are not a Charismatic, then rules say that you must only ask questions.

I have repeatly posted this Bible Verse during the thread, and it states that the "Spirit of truth proceedeth from the Father", and not from your "sound doctrine".

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:25-27)

Sure, the lawyers of the Bible can find other verses to justify their own doctrine, but then they are not Charismatics and should post in another section of the forum.

 

[banish'd]

Hey Ben

There is not a church within a hundred mile radius where that happens.

And the people are too scared of their leaders to rise up and hold them to account for the lack of God in the church.

I think Charismatics have a good reason to be cautious. The Toronto Blessing and Lakewood seem to be a "Kindalini Awakening". Now that Indian Yoga, which is a corporeal energy seems to have manifested its self at Toronto and Lakewood, we have to face the fact that we worship with peoples from other cultures who have strange spirits attached to their worship.

During recent years, the population here in California has become very diverse. Look what happened in Haiti when the Catholics worship next to Voodoo while in church.

What is the answer? How are Charismatics to discern and still be diverse?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't know what a 'lawyer' of the Bible is, but I'd say you've spotted a huge problem, although don't seem to recognize it as such.

Don't be hatin on the lawyers.

1. Luke 7:30
   But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7:29-31&version=KJV
2. Luke 11:45
   Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.
   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+11:44-46&version=KJV
3. Luke 11:46
   And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
   
4. Luke 11:52
   Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+11:51-53&version=KJV
5. Luke 14:3
   And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?

I think that sums up what is meant by biblical lawyers .

But i perceive a fallacy here . that the bible speaks of "Discerning of Spirits" and the most of the conversation is talking about discerning of whether someone preaches to your itching ears or not . (Biblical Correctness when there are more denominations than cards in a deck)

The kingdom is not about talk it is about power . the spiritual gifts have to do with building the kingdom and maintaining the community of it in Love .

that's what comes to me when i read through this conversation .

bless .

 

[banish'd]

Michael,

This is only my opinion, but the Pastor of the church is the only one who has the gifts of, "Discerning of Spirits". I pray on my direct channel to God the Father, and let the Pastor have the church.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Michael,

This is only my opinion, but the Pastor of the church is the only one who has the gifts of, "Discerning of Spirits". I pray on my direct channel to God the Father, and let the Pastor have the church.

hmm . i dwell in that realm all week . cannot turn it off . that would be problematic for me . but each person has different gifts .

i appreciate your response banish'd thank you .

 

[lismore]

I think Charismatics have a good reason to be cautious. The Toronto Blessing and Lakewood seem to be a "Kindalini Awakening". Now that Indian Yoga, which is a corporeal energy seems to have manifested its self at Toronto and Lakewood, we have to face the fact that we worship with peoples from other cultures who have strange spirits attached to their worship.

There is a church down the road that hosts yoga sessions on Tuesday nights to get people in. When I'm coming home from work I see them all coming out with their mats. I know a couple of people in that church who are born again, they are concerned but what can you do? If they leave and go somewhere else it will be similar issues. They are scared that if they speak up or leave they might not find another church home.

On my first visit to the Full gospel church 10 years ago, at the tea time after the meeting I started speaking to this lady who offered me a tarot card reading. I found that incredible......

We have to face the fact that there are strange practices creeping into the church. To find a church that believes the word and is open to the Spirit, its hard. At least for me here in Scotland anyway.

But one piece of good news is that we surely know its the last days, when you can visit church after church and leave feeling hollow....

Jesus made me whole, anything less than Jesus just wont do!

 

[lismore]

How are Charismatics to discern and still be diverse?

There are things that demons and people in the camp of demons just cannot stand.

For example, praise and worship, when it begins to flow, it makes some people soar, others feel threatened.

I was a pentecostal church member for 8 years and I used to play mandolin in the worship team. I have seen some things. I saw an African Christian start manifesting, the demon started to shreik and squeal in the presence of God as the praise and worship began to flow. He literally got deliverance during the praise and worship

Unfortunately the pastor officially declared war on the worship team, saying the praise was 'stealing his limelight'. Didn't flow after that. But he never used to enter into the praise and worship. SOmetimes you cant discern things you havent experienced.

A lot of people left the church after that.......they had been soaring in the presence of God.

God Bless You

 

[Brother-Ruben]

Brother-Ruben,

Welcome to the forum.

This is the Charismatic Section of the forum, so if you are not a Charismatic, then rules say that you must only ask questions.

I have repeatly posted this Bible Verse during the thread, and it states that the "Spirit of truth proceedeth from the Father", and not from your "sound doctrine".

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:25-27)

Sure, the lawyers of the Bible can find other verses to justify their own doctrine, but then they are not Charismatics and should post in another section of the forum.

I may not define myself as Charismatic, but some who know me might. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and am filled with the Holy Spirit.

Yes...you seem to have posted those two verses a bit, and I agree with them! Surely if sound doctrine is truly sound and is truly doctrine, it is given by none other than the same Spirit that fills you and I both. If that is the case, then surely it is not "my" doctrine, but "God's" and "ours." Now let me ASK a question:

If I'm not a Charismatic, what am I? A lawyer?

These lawyers you speak of were not Spirit-filled. How can you compare your Christian brothers to these?

 

[banish'd]

Brother-Ruben,

You are still trying to debate, but at least you put it as a question. The Grace-Centered Christian forum allows their members to debate, and I believe this forum has a Section where we are allowed to debate. Truthfully, I learn more during a debate, but this forum likes to have some peace and quiet.

To answer your question: What you are is between you and God, and what I am is between me an God. You know what you believe, and I know what I believe.

It's impossible to change that!

 

[JimfromOhio]

I always have issues with Pentecostal/Charismatic's accountability with discernment. I believe they are worst than most other Christian denominations when it comes to "discernment".

The ability to do discernment is basically an ability to think biblically and it is a reality that discernment is an area where most Christians stumble. Scripture reminds us that we must be sound in the faith through the Holy Spirit and Word of God (1 Tim. 4:6; 2 Tim. 4:2-3; Tit. 1:9; 2:1). I remember this verse written by Paul, “If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing” (1 Tim. 6:3-4). God holds us accountable for what we believe as well as how we think about the truth He has revealed. I see many give "lip-service" to the importance of doctrine and frown upon doctrinal discussions.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I have issues with extra biblical REVELATION or God's expanding revelation which seems to be all the range in some Christian circles these days. If it isn't confirmed in the scriptures I reject it. gg

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have issues with extra biblical REVELATION or God's expanding revelation which seems to be all the range in some Christian circles these days. If it isn't confirmed in the scriptures I reject it. gg

Danger with that is . if your understanding of scripture is lacking in relation to a new revelation . then you'll reject that too .

 

[gratefulgrace]

Possibly but that is why we are admonished to 'search the scriptures daily to see if these things be so'. There is no accounting for stupidity or resistance to being lead by the Spirit. The point is the truth is IN THERE as opposed to out there as The X files claim. LOL>
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Yitzchak]

And why would you say that is not lacking discernment?
If you have a church where the sick are not being healed, people are not getting free, words of knowledge are not flowing and prophetic encouragement is not being given, then the people in that church have utterly failed to discern the most important spirit in the Bible: THE HOLY SPIRIT.

That is the worst form of lack of discernment.

This is a pretty good quote.

 

[Yitzchak]

If we are basing our views upon what scripture teaches, then I suggest we look at what scripture has to say about discernment....

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.