"Silver or gold I do not have"

[KingZzub]

devil literally means adversary, satan comes from to root work to deceive.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Oh, ok, thanks Zub

 

[KingZzub]

Actually I got that exactly the wrong way around, sorry!!!

devil is from the Greek and means accuser, satan is from the Hebrew and means enemy.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes, they were selling all the things needed to come in and do sacrifices under the law at inflated prices, and much of it was faulty goods that shouldn't have been used under the Law

An even richer man is one that has his daily needs met so abundantly that he can afford to reach out and help meet the daily needs of others.

That's much more beneficial than just focusing on meeting one's personal needs only (I got mine, to heck with everyone else!...does that sound like the Father?)

apparently there are some here determined to force me off this thread, and I'm not sure whether to leave or not, but at least until some of the abuse (from others here) comes under control, this will be my last post here....it has nothing to do with you KM which is why I am saying this here, I don't want you to think you have offended me in any way...hopefully in this final post you can grasp what I am saying....

scripture, not me, says that the rich man is the one who can meet his daily needs....if this is truth, which I am assuming it is, then to worry about gain is fruitless because we already have the "riches" promised (that is provided those riches are referring to monetary not spiritual)...now, I am not suggesting as some here assert that we can't seek monetary things, even as we speak, I "desire" something that requires money, something that would solve a great deal of our problems, so anything to the contrary is a twisting of what I am saying....nor am I suggesting that more, excess would not be able to be used to help others, that is good stewardship and is vital to any financial issues in the Body, so anything you might be told about what I believe on that issue would also be contrary to what I am actually saying....what I am saying is two fold, 1. we need to stop worrying about seeking God's promises, and instead worry about seeking God, look at it this way, if I promise my children we will go to the zoo, they might look forward to it, they might get anxious, they might even chatter on about it, but they do not need to worry over it, or pester me to keep that promise because it's mine to fulfill not theirs. Just because people in the bible didn't always do this doesn't mean it is not wise to do so...iow's Jesus is our example not all those that were coming to Jesus for healing... I see nothing in scripture that would suggest Jesus worried, pestered, demanded, etc. God to meet His needs, when it came to His needs, He simply trusted, I can do no less if I am living in the Spirit...2. as to focusing on the needs of others, we should do that no matter if we are rich or poor....one of many things we do in our church is provide wood for those who burn and for whatever reason can't get wood for themselves. Rich and poor alike cut, split, stack, deliver wood, money is not necessary....I personally know a family that lives in poverty and were gifted $100 at God's prompting from another poor family....point is this, when we are seeking to obey God by loving others, money or lack thereof will not hold us back....

So again, that is not to say we can't ask for money, can't try to gain monetarily, but rather that when we become focused on what we could do if we had more, our focus is not longer on God....kind of like Peter walking on the water, in order for Him to walk on that water, His focus had to be on Christ, not the water...when we put our focus on gain, or even what we could do with more, we loose our focus on the Christ.

Hope that was clear....

Like it, or not...while on Club Earth we will have to have money to obtain good and services. Jesus had to obtain goods and services as he didn't live on an island of separation from society.

So...here's a good question to think about:

Which is better...satan's followers to be in control of vast amounts of wealth so they can spread their message of death and destruction to the masses;

Or, would it be better for God's people to have control of vast amounts of wealth so they can spread the message of life and fellowship with the Father thru Jesus to the masses?

I've thought about this question a lot, and I still come back to the very sovereignty of God. Even the wealth of this world are His to command, so why should we try to do it for Him? That is a question we should ponder as well....we cannot look at things through the wisdom of man, but only through the eyes and wisdom of God.

God has been talking to me a lot of late about what is His and what is mine. Mine is to Obey, mine is to love, to follow, to worship, to serve God alone...everything else is His, His to convict, His to gift, His to command, His to direct, His to bring about...when we get that right in our minds and lives, everything else falls into place...when we stop trying to take what is God's upon ourselves (including our own defense) and content ourselves with letting God be God, amazing things happen, God is no longer put in the box of our creation...and, since obeying is a big enough job as it is, why not just worry about what is ours and do it to the best of our ability....

I mean, who benefits from Christians not having money...God, or the devil?

that is a sovereign God's call not mine. Look at Joseph, didn't God use even what was intended for evil, for Good? Can He not do the same with our money? It's about trusting God to be God.....

 

[probinson]

scripture, not me, says that the rich man is the one who can meet his daily needs....if this is truth, which I am assuming it is, then to worry about gain is fruitless

I just did a quick search of the thread to verify, and absolutely no one on this thread has mentioned "worry[ing] about gain".

I personally am not "worried" about gain, and I suspect no one else in this thread is either. We simply take our Father at His Word that He is Jehovah Jireh.

I don't know about anyone else, but I need God. However, as I said earlier, I can not separate who God IS from what He does. So when I say I need God, I am also saying I need His Love, His peace, His joy, His comfort, His healing, His provision, His strength. These things and more are all things that I "seek", because they are who He is.

But I am not "worried" about these things. Quite to the contrary, I rest in the assurance of who God IS, and as it relates to the topic at hand, He IS Jehovah Jireh, my Provider.

 

[probinson]

scripture, not me, says that the rich man is the one who can meet his daily needs....

Just one more thing;

Would you please supply the scripture reference which states this?

 

[lismore]

if serving the Lord from your heart is the important thing, why do so many seek the "riches" "promised" in scripture rather than the things of God and service of the heart? I mean, if money wealth is a promise of God, why do we need to seek it? Why not seek HIm and let Him worry about fulfilling HIs promise?

I don't know

 

[lismore]

Actually I got that exactly the wrong way around, sorry!!!

devil is from the Greek and means accuser, satan is from the Hebrew and means enemy.

Methinks enemy and accuser correlate rather nicely!

 

[KingZzub]

Agreed, Lismore.

 

[KM Richards]

So if the adversary has alot of money to spread his deception to the masses and Christians have very little money to counter all that deception...how is that good for the Gospel?

 

[JimB]

What has money got to do with anything? Money is not the solution to anything, especially when it comes to advancing God’s kingdom. The first century church did okay without it. We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly (material, canrnal, financial) weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. (2 Cor. 10.4).
~Jim

On Mount Moriah, it was not Isaac God wanted – it was Abraham.​

 

[KingZzub]

The first century church did ok without money?

I will have to tell Barabas that his selling his land in Cyprus and giving all the money to the church was a waste of time then. Or Paul to not go to churches to raise money for the poor in Jerusalem.

 

[JimB]

The first century church did ok without money?

I will have to tell Barabas that his selling his land in Cyprus and giving all the money to the church was a waste of time then. Or Paul to not go to churches to raise money for the poor in Jerusalem.

What Paul did was raise money for relief of Christians in Jerusalem (despite the fact that they were supposed to be "prosperous") who were victims of a drought and he received the offerings from not-so-prosperous (imagine that) Macedonian Christians who gave beyond their need. And I think Paul personally flew the money packed in his $5,000 Gucci travel back down to Jerusalem in his private Lear Jet. Of course, I may not have heard that correctly.

The funds were to provide relief from (gasp!) poverty caused by drought. The money did not advance the kingdom one inch.

BTW, Ben, how do you interpret 2 Cor. 10.4?

~Jim

On Mount Moriah, it was not Isaac God wanted – it was Abraham.​

 

[nephilimiyr]

The funds were to provide relief from (gasp!) poverty caused by drought. The money did not advance the kingdom one inch.

Um, how do you know it didn't?

 

[KM Richards]

What has money got to do with anything? Money is not the solution to anything, especially when it comes to advancing God’s kingdom. The first century church did okay without it. We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly (material, canrnal, financial) weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. (2 Cor. 10.4).
~Jim

On Mount Moriah, it was not Isaac God wanted – it was Abraham.​

Really? Ever been to the mission field in a third world country where people are starving and begging for food...and it takes money to produce that food...and they won't hear your words till you tend to some of their basic needs, which takes money.

You're right, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal when fighting spiritual battles....but when fighting natural battles, this world works on a money system and the church has fallen far short of what could be if Christians weren't scared to have money to use as a tool to do good.

Sure, collectively we can all gather up a few dollars and do some good, but we should all individually have more money so we can all do that much more collectively when we all pitch in to fund good works.

No, money is not our primary focus...but many Christians think money is the root of all evil when money is nothing more than a tool and is not evil itself.

How can we take the Gospel to all the world without having access to alot of money? Back in the days of the early church, the world wasn't that big, things didn't cost that much, so it didn't take a whole lot of money for them to do what they did.

Things are much different in modern times, yet most Christians want to go back instead of going forward.

Anywho, you have the right to your views...but there's more to having money that just providing for our personal needs and plunkin a few dollars in the bucket on Sunday morning. Soul winning, and making disciples (teaching and training) takes alot of money

 

[KM Richards]

The money did not advance the kingdom one inch.

Keeping brothers in the Lord from starving
out did not benefit the Body of Christ?

 

[Faulty]

Soul winning, and making disciples (teaching and training) takes alot of money

A bit out of focus I'm thinking.

Yes it does, if you pursue it in such a manner that is in itself costly. So a lot of money may be your need for your particular setup, but that don't mean evangelism, teaching, and training themselves are expensive, but rather your approach to these endeavours are.

Either way, if your endeavour is pleasing to God, He provides the need, be it through a few richies, a plethora of paupers, or any mix-and-match as He sees fit.

 

[KingZzub]

Keeping brothers in the Lord from starving
out did not benefit the Body of Christ?

Apparently in an effort to denigrate money, yes this is the case for Jim!

Apparently helping the body of Christ survive a drought is nothing to do with the kingdom of God at all.

 

[KingZzub]

A bit out of focus I'm thinking.

Focussing on soul winning is out of focus? Now I have heard it all.

As a church we are now too big for our house. We started in August with 3 and now we have 12-15 people. We need a hall. Guess what - it takes money. If we are going to impact our community, and impact people who are too shy, too proud or too whatever to go to a house meeting, we need to meet in a hall on Sundays. I have spoken to two apostles at length, one has planted 15 churches, the other nearer 200. Both agree and have shared wisdom with me that we need to hire a hall that will seat around 100 people. Why are we hiring such a hall - to help us reach our community and win souls. That costs money.

 

[JimB]

Um, how do you know it didn't?

Um, if money advanced the kingdom of God I really don’t think God would have overlooked telling us that. In fact, he told us what advances God’s kingdom (hint: it’s not material stuff).

~Jim

On Mount Moriah, it was not Isaac God wanted – it was Abraham.​