Does 'Goddidit' constitute an explanation? (2)

[AV1611VET]

He's not saying we have a infinite past. he's saying we have a infinite ammount of prior events...

In other words, he's invoking quantum superposition?

 

[Jnwaco]

I'm still waiting for religion to offer a good answer as to why there needs to be a reason for why we are here.

Now were starting to get into the real atheistic philosophy. Are you a fan of moral nihilism?

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

"quantum superposition is the fundamental law of quantum mechanics. It defines the collection of all possible states that an object can have"

Im not sure what that has to do with it. elaborate?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

What you're proposing then is an ongoing creatio ex nihilo.

A net zero is still creation, but God ended creating on the 7th day by resting (i.e. ceasing) from all His work.

If the Casmir Effect and that other thing you mentioned are science, then they can take a hike if they violate Scripture.

That's the way I feel about it.

Well they are observable effects, telling them to take a hike doesn't make them go away.

However, on this one, I'd like to take issue with your scriptural interpretation... so God rested on the seventh day... does that preclude him from starting to work again on the eighth?

 

[AV1611VET]

However, on this one, I'd like to take issue with your scriptural interpretation... so God rested on the seventh day... does that preclude him from starting to work again on the eighth?

Yes.

In the sense of ex nihilo creation, God finished His work.

If not, then the Law of Conservation would be rendered nebulous.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

In other words, he's invoking quantum superposition?

Not at all... its like distances... there are an infinite number of distance measurements along a finite line, so too there is an infinite number of events within a finite period.

There is no limit to how many times you can divide a metre by half, and half again. So too there is no limit to how many times you can divide and divide a second.

Even though, for all practical purposes, the Planck length and Planck time do provide a practical limit to these divisions, there is no inherent reason one could not, if one wanted to, continue dividing even beyond the Planck time, half a Planck time, a quarter a Planck time length, a millionth a Planck time length... and so on.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Yes.

In the sense of ex nihilo creation, God finished His work.

Chapter and verse?

If not, then the Law of Conservation would be rendered nebulous.

Well, thems the facts. Sorry if it clashed with High School physics, but there you are. Newton's laws of motion aren't accurate either. But for 99.9985% of everyones practical purposes, the High School version of the laws of motion and the conservation principle work fine, to several decimal degrees accuracy.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not at all... its like distances... there are an infinite number of distance measurements along a finite line, so too there is an infinite number of events within a finite period.

There is no limit to how many times you can divide a metre by half, and half again. So too there is no limit to how many times you can divide and divide a second.

Even though, for all practical purposes, the Planck length and Planck time do provide a practical limit to these divisions, there is no inherent reason one could not, if one wanted to, continue dividing even beyond the Planck time, half a Planck time, a quarter a Planck time length, a millionth a Planck time length... and so on.

This is where God's will comes in, though.

When God issues a prophecy, quantum superposition takes a hike.

When God issues a prophecy, infinite numbers can take a hike.

In other words, it is going to happen --- and nothing is going to stop it.

In addition, God declares the end from the beginning; and matters of quantum superposition can stand down.

It's as good as done.

This is why the Bible sometimes speaks of an event as having already happened, even though it is still pending.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

This is where God's will comes in, though.

When God issues a prophecy, quantum superposition takes a hike.

When God issues a prophecy, infinite numbers can take a hike.

In other words, it is going to happen --- and nothing is going to stop it.

In addition, God declares the end from the beginning; and matters of quantum superposition can stand down.

It's as good as done.

This is why the Bible sometimes speaks of an event as having already happened, even though it is still pending.

You really don't listen to what other people have to say, do you? You just sort of barrel on talking about whatever, regardless of what anyone else is saying.

I said infinite numbers in finite regions has NOTHING to do with quantum superposition. Nor does it have anything to do with having a beginning and an end.

OK, so lets say God decides the universe will exist for (for the sake of argument) precisely 1000 years. Thats a finite length of time, however there are still an INFINITE number of time measurements in that thousand years. No matter how small an amount of time you determine, that length of time can always be halfed. Quartered, eithed, millionthed, and so on.

 

[AV1611VET]

Chapter and verse?

Basic theology:

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Law of Conservation is the capstone of His creation.

Well, thems the facts. Sorry if it clashed with High School physics, but there you are.

Them am the facts, and them don't clash with high school physics at all.

As I have said more than twice now, God instituted the Law of Conservation in Genesis 2, and it has been in operation since then.

The Creation Week is the only time ever when the Law of Conservation did not exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, so lets say God decides the universe will exist for (for the sake of argument) precisely 1000 years. Thats a finite length of time, however there are still an INFINITE number of time measurements in that thousand years. No matter how small an amount of time you determine, that length of time can always be halfed. Quartered, eithed, millionthed, and so on.

I don't care if you divide time into yocto-Planck units --- you can still consider the universe done and over with in precisely 1000 years, if God so ordains it.

What point are you making, anyway?

We seem to be on the same page here.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Basic theology:The Law of Conservation is the capstone of His creation.Them am the facts, and them don't clash with high school physics at all.

As I have said more than twice now, God instituted the Law of Conservation in Genesis 2, and it has been in operation since then.

The Creation Week is the only time ever when the Law of Conservation did not exist.

If you want to insist that the High School version is the accurate one, and that the conservation principle is in effect, precisely the way you describe... care to explain the Casimir Effect, Hawking Radiation, evaporating black holes, and why not have a crack at the expanding universe and Hubble's Constant, while we're at it?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I don't care if you divide time into yocto-Planck units --- you can still consider the universe done and over with in precisely 1000 years, if God so ordains it.

What point are you making, anyway?

We seem to be on the same page here.

The point is that even in 1000 years, there are an infinite number of time periods, or events, if you will.

Thus you can have an infinite number of previous events, without having an infinite past.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you want to insist that the High School version is the accurate one, and that the conservation principle is in effect, precisely the way you describe... care to explain the Casimir Effect, Hawking Radiation, evaporating black holes, and why not have a crack at the expanding universe and Hubble's Constant, while we're at it?

No, I sure don't.

Are they victims of God's will, too?

I'll be more than happy to include them in my science-can-take-a-hike motto, or filter them out via my boolean standards, or just automatically assume they're wrong vis-a-vis my Prime Directive, if you want.

Your call.

I warn you though --- don't bother giving me a screen and a half of science, then expect me to kowtow to it, or you'll be disappointed when I handwave it away because it can't get past any of my three checkpoints listed above.

 

[AV1611VET]

The point is that even in 1000 years, there are an infinite number of time periods, or events, if you will.

Thus you can have an infinite number of previous events, without having an infinite past.

Whatever --- I guess.

 

[Jnwaco]

I see what you're saying Enemy, but I wasn't necessarily referring to dividing a year into a month into a day into... ad nauseum (a form of Zeno's paradox).

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'll be more than happy to include them in my science-can-take-a-hike motto, or filter them out via my boolean standards, or just automatically assume they're wrong vis-a-vis my Prime Directive, if you want.

Your call.

I warn you though --- don't bother giving me a screen and a half of science, then expect me to kowtow to it, or you'll be disappointed when I handwave it away because it can't get past any of my three checkpoints listed above.

has it occurred to you, AV, that neither the universe nor God is about you?

 

[SkyWriting]

has it occurred to you, AV, that neither the universe nor God is about you?

Wrong on both counts. Either God is personal and died for our individual sins, or we just made him up in our head.

And two, the only reality is that which we form in our mind.
All three say you're incorrect.

 

[Skaloop]

Now were starting to get into the real atheistic philosophy.

I'd say it's just general philosophy, not specific to atheism. Also, I note that you have not provided an answer as to why there need be a why.

Are you a fan of moral nihilism?

Nope. Not totally familiar with the details, though, so I can't say much about it either way. Definitely not a fan at the moment.

 

[Jnwaco]

I'd say it's just general philosophy, not specific to atheism. Also, I note that you have not provided an answer as to why there need be a why.

Well, Christians can give you a why - because God loves us and he created us for His pleasure. That's the Biblical part. The "why" question for philosophers or science is why there is something rather than nothing. Why not just plain old nothing?

Nope. Not totally familiar with the details, though, so I can't say much about it either way. Definitely not a fan at the moment.

Okay, just asking. A good many atheists ultimately come to a moral nihilistic conclusion, which is essentially that there is no moral law, no difference between good and evil.