Some Evangelical Christians evangelizing in predominantly Christian countries

[Dorothea]

What are you talking about?

The man praised and gave thanks to God for his goodness as he awaited his execution in a prison camp. He was killed by the Soviets.

What exactly do you think he was cashing in on?

Archimandrite Sophrony has said that those who cannot understand what the Saints wrote (such as St. Silouan which he wrote about) in his letters or this quote, do not know God (the Holy Spirit).

 

[Thekla]

Does anyone know the extent of US missionary activity in the USSR (as opposed to post collapse Russia) ?

 

[lionroar0]

True. One does not know God if one does not love his brother (and enemies for that matter). But also, why would there be seculation of this priest's motives when he is facing death? He's not going to cash in anything.

He seems to think that the faces of the dead that the priest saw are other priests. Thus he seems to think that it's a ploy to get ppl into the priesthood and the priesthood will get you into heaven. Thus cashing in on IT(priesthood)

 

[Hentenza]

Does anyone know the extent of US missionary activity in the USSR (as opposed to post collapse Russia) ?

Here is an interesting article on the controversial religion law passed in Russia in 1997. It restricts who can evangelize the unbelievers there.

CNN - Yeltsin signs controversial religion bill - Sept. 25, 1997

 

[cobweb]

He seems to think that the faces of the dead that the priest saw are other priests. Thus he seems to think that it's a ploy to get ppl into the priesthood and the priesthood will get you into heaven. Thus cashing in on IT(priesthood)

When I read that line about the "faces of the dead" I am reminded of the photo of Elder Joseph of Vatopedi taken after his repose. He was right. It is an "unearthly beauty and joy".

 

[Thekla]

Here is an interesting article on the controversial religion law passed in Russia in 1997. It restricts who can evangelize the unbelievers there.

CNN - Yeltsin signs controversial religion bill - Sept. 25, 1997

Thanks !

I am aware of this bill, and it has been under discussion in here.
I do think Russia has the right to self-determination as a nation; given the US role in the Russian economic collapse post-USSR, the historical use of missionaries (Ireland, Philippines, Alaska, etc. etc.) and the introduction of non-native cultural and economic mores, the position is at least understandable. Also, given the understanding of culture among historically ancient Christian nations, there may be a comparison of the US culture as an expression of what Christians here believe.

But I do wonder what efforts were made by US missionaries in the USSR, when the situation was dangerous.

 

[obsolete]

Archimandrite Sophrony has said that those who cannot understand what the Saints wrote (such as St. Silouan which he wrote about) in his letters or this quote, do not know God (the Holy Spirit).

He seems to think that the faces of the dead that the priest saw are other priests. Thus he seems to think that it's a ploy to get ppl into the priesthood and the priesthood will get you into heaven. Thus cashing in on IT(priesthood)

What are you talking about?

The man praised and gave thanks to God for his goodness as he awaited his execution in a prison camp. He was killed by the Soviets.

What exactly do you think he was cashing in on?

Awaiting death and seeing those who have gone before to glory the priest would have to hope that he was going to glory also. Cashing in was directed to other churches coming in to 'help' (help being the sunnyside of control) but whoever was using that writing of the deathcamp to prove something other that Christ is there for those who believe in HIM is suspect imo

 

[cobweb]

Thanks !

I am aware of this bill, and it has been under discussion in here.
I do think Russia has the right to self-determination as a nation; given the US role in the Russian economic collapse post-USSR, the historical use of missionaries (Ireland, Philippines, Alaska, etc. etc.) and the introduction of non-native cultural and economic mores, the position is at least understandable. Also, given the understanding of culture among historically ancient Christian nations, there may be a comparison of the US culture as an expression of what Christians here believe.

But I do wonder what efforts were made by US missionaries in the USSR, when the situation was much more dangerous.

I do recall an effort among some to smuggle Bibles in. There are similar missionary groups now that do the same for China.

 

[Yeznik]

The Gospel of John was not in Greek? Or the Revelation? these two at least were written in orgininal greek for sure.. I do not know about the others. Even so I would trust the translation that the Fathers gave. They used this language for doing exegesis on the Bible. St. Ignatios did and also all the Apostolic Fathers.

....and the bible was written in Greek (part of it anyways) is enough to lead our faith out of this one

Who would understand the bible better than a Greek than Greeks themselves or we need someone to come in and "translate" it for us?

So your telling me since the parts of the bible are in written and Greek and the Greeks can read Greek that the Greeks know what the bible is saying? C’mon what’s next, are you going to tell me that since I am writing in English that people who can read English are going to know what I am saying?

Seriously, all joking aside, I would say it is more than something just being written in Greek because a person can bet taught Greek. The fact of the matter is that not only parts were written in Greek but there were Greeks who actually, and literally, where there at the time of Christ and when Christ was preaching. More specifically, Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Egyptians, Romans, Ethiopians etc., were all there and had first hand knowledge of Christ, His teachings, His Apostles teachings and were a witness to the Resurrection.

 

[cobweb]

Awaiting death and seeing those who have gone before to glory the priest would have to hope that he was going to glory also. Cashing in was directed to other churches coming in to 'help' (help being the sunnyside of control) but whoever was using that writing of the deathcamp to prove something other that Christ is there for those who believe in HIM is suspect imo

It is used to praise God in memory of the Russian martyrs. That was just a snippet of it. It is a very long hymn and prayer to God.

Have you seen it used in some nefarious way?

 

[Thekla]

I do recall an effort among some to smuggle Bibles in. There are similar missionary groups now that do the same for China.

Thanks, Cobweb !

 

[Livindesert]

Seriously, all joking aside, I would say it is more than something just being written in Greek because a person can bet taught Greek.

Yes, many non-Orthodox can read Greek, the issue boils down to interpetation. Due to my own reasearch into different texts, I do not particularly trust the current apostolic churches interpetations of various issues. This should not be a surprise though because if I agreed with them I would be member of one of them.

 

[Livindesert]

China halts a shipment of Bibles from U.S. group

THE WORLD

August 18, 2008|Mark Magnier, Times Staff Writer
BEIJING — An American Christian group that was stopped at the airport when it tried to bring in more than 300 Bibles won't leave the customs zone until it gets the books back, its leader said today.
The four Americans, led by Pat Klein of the Wyoming-based Vision Beyond Borders, said they were convinced officials wanted them to leave the Kunming airport in southern China without the Bibles, preventing their distribution.

Full article here China halts a shipment of Bibles from U.S. group - Los Angeles Times

 

[Livindesert]

Use of undercover missionaries getting new scrutiny
___By John Pierce

Anonymous missionaries are used by both the Southern Baptist Convention and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship but not by the American Baptist Churches USA.
___Recent missionary murders and the war in Iraq have heightened concern about the presence and safety of missionaries, particularly in Islamic countries. Three Southern Baptist hospital workers--missionaries but not secretive--were killed in December in Muslim-dominated Yemen. In April, word that Time magazine is considering an in-depth article revealing the work of anonymous missionaries sparked protests from some Christians.

Full article Use of undercover missionaries getting new scrutiny

 

[Philothei]

So your telling me since the parts of the bible are in written and Greek and the Greeks can read Greek that the Greeks know what the bible is saying? C’mon what’s next, are you going to tell me that since I am writing in English that people who can read English are going to know what I am saying?

Seriously, all joking aside, I would say it is more than something just being written in Greek because a person can bet taught Greek. The fact of the matter is that not only parts were written in Greek but there were Greeks who actually, and literally, where there at the time of Christ and when Christ was preaching. More specifically, Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Egyptians, Romans, Ethiopians etc., were all there and had first hand knowledge of Christ, His teachings, His Apostles teachings and were a witness to the Resurrection.

Well...yes and no...someone though mentioned that the "interpetation" is wrong.. of how we present the Gospel. Personally it does ticks me off when someone would go to the Jews to tell them what the Old Testament says... or to the Greeks to "teach them" what the Book of Revelation says...Further more all these people you mention are not the ones who claim "right interpretation".....rather other who are indeed foreign to either that culture or the language...

Christianity came from the East any way you look at it...

 

[Philothei]

Yes, many non-Orthodox can read Greek, the issue boils down to interpetation. Due to my own reasearch into different texts, I do not particularly trust the current apostolic churches interpetations of various issues. This should not be a surprise though because if I agreed with them I would be member of one of them.

And that is your opinion and right but the same way we do no go around "correcting" your interpretation I think it is unfair that some would come into an EO country to teach someone their mother tongue esp. in matters of faith. since they already Christian...

 

[katherine2001]

Even if you learn Greek, chances are you are not going to understand all the meanings and nuances of a word or expression that a native speaker would have.

 

[Secundulus]

Even if you learn Greek, chances are you are not going to understand all the meanings and nuances of a word or expression that a native speaker would have.

My understanding is that even a native Greek speaker will have difficulty with the Greek of the Bible.

Koine Greek is to Modern Greek somewhat as Old English is to Modern English.

Is this correct?

 

[soulsanchor]

My understanding is that even a native Greek speaker will have difficulty with the Greek of the Bible.

Koine Greek is to Modern Greek somewhat as Old English is to Modern English.

Is this correct?

yes, good point. But the 'oral tradition' handed down along with the written is of grave importance as well, right?

I believe that the 'oral tradition' explains (commentary) the scripture handed down in the apostolic succession. imo.

 

[Philothei]

My understanding is that even a native Greek speaker will have difficulty with the Greek of the Bible.

Koine Greek is to Modern Greek somewhat as Old English is to Modern English.

Is this correct?

Nope the Koine is not Ancient Greek and 99% Greeks are high school grads. They understand Koine perfectly. Plus the time they spend listening to the liturgy that is also in Koine they are familiar with the language of Koine. IOW an average Greek person can understand it without difficulty.
Old English would be compared to Homeric Greek and modern Greek to modern english.... But Koine is much easier to understand than Homeric... So it would be something like Shakespearian English to modern ... that is the best I can describe it....