I admit it: I'm agnostic (Moved from New Member Intros)

[To Be]

Hello, I'm Shayne - yes, a girl with a guy's name - and I have ventured over here for means of letting myself see if I am meant to be a Christian, if I am meant to believe, or just stay agnostic.

I was raised a Catholic, and I still have the after-effects: that tiny little voice that tells me, 'God will be disappointed in you' whenever I am about to do something considered morally wrong, e.g lying.

Becoming agnostic wasn't a Bam! Smack! process. It was just that, when I actually thought logically to myself, I realised that no, I didn't think Jesus Christ existed.

And now I am extremely confused, because I think I'm stuck in the crossroads between a Christian and being agnostic.

< Staff Edit >

Feel free to ask anything.

 

[RobertMerton]

what were those 'logical' thoughts you had that makes you think that Jesus never existed?

 

[Sudekai]

I believe that you should not believe in something because of a social norm, or because someone will be disappointed, or for any other reason like that. I think you should believe in any hypothesis (and the existence of God is a hypothesis), only if there's enough evidence for you to believe in it's existence. That being said, as an atheist, I understand that there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of Zeus, or Thor, or the Judeo-Christian God. By the way, the title of your post is "I admit it: I'm agnostic". This seems to imply that being agnostic is a bad thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It means that you are able to use your own judgment to analyze something for yourself rather than being submissive and letting someone else tell you that something is definitely, unquestionably true. I'm not trying to convert you to anything, I'm just telling you that you don't believe in Zeus, for the same reason I don't believe in God. There simply is no evidence for his existence. As somebody once told me, all Christians are atheists to the thousands of other gods that humans claim to have existed or exist. Atheists just take it one god further. Think about that.

-Sudekai

P.S. The burden of proof is on the person or group of people making a claim. If I told you that I had superpowers, and said, "Prove I can't fly." You would say, "Prove you can't!? Prove that you can!" It's the same thing with God and everything else. Before you believe in it, you should have a good deal of proof of its existence.

 

[churchgoing]

Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. It will help you, I think. I found it to be enlightening and uplifting.

(Anticipating the objections from Christians: don't knock it until you've read it. That's just closed-minded.)

 

[ephraimanesti]

Hello, I'm Shayne - yes, a girl with a guy's name - and I have ventured over here for means of letting myself see if I am meant to be a Christian, if I am meant to believe, or just stay agnostic.

MY SISTER,

Why are you putting this all-important question up to a vote? Should you not be asking this Question of God?--He, of course, being the only One qualified and capable of answering it.

I was raised a Catholic, and I still have the after-effects: that tiny little voice that tells me, 'God will be disappointed in you' whenever I am about to do something considered morally wrong, e.g lying.

You should be praising God for that "little voice." A conscience is a wonderful gift in this time and place of "anything goes."

Becoming agnostic wasn't a Bam! Smack! process. It was just that, when I actually thought logically to myself, I realised that no, I didn't think Jesus Christ existed.

Assuming that you believe in the existence of God, what is the nature of your problem believing in His Son and the Salvation God the Father offers through Him?

In your apparent rebellion against Catholicism, is it possible that you are "throwing out the Baby with the bathwater?

And now I am extremely confused, because I think I'm stuck in the crossroads between a Christian and being agnostic.

i've been there and done that--not a very comfortable place to be, huh!

Feel free to ask anything.

So what are you looking for and how can we help?

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Sudekai]

ephraimanesti, you haven't given her any reason at all to believe in your God. I've read other posts by you, and all that you ever say essentially is, "What are you thinking! All you have to do is disregard your reason and feelings and have blind faith, unquestioningly obeying everything that the Bible tells you!"

In another forum, you said, "The main mode of fighting [questioning her beliefs] involves A TOTAL DISREGARD FOR YOUR FEELINGS which are easily controlled and manipulated by satan, and A COMPLETE TRUST AND FAITH IN GOD'S PROMISES irregardless of your personal thoughts and feelings which are contradicting God's Word."

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but are you a lunatic!? The same could be said for any other religion! You absolutely always must question your beliefs. If you do not, that's called blind faith, and that is how ignorance is born. An Islamic person could say that same thing about their religion. What makes you right instead of them? Nothing at all, except you believe you're right because you close your eyes and ignore all contradicting evidence, because that's the only way that you can believe that there is any form of god. And Shayne, it's really okay to not believe, or not be sure. Use your head, and NEVER unquestioningly believe ANYTHING, because you are not an ignorant fool.

-Sudekai

 

[Stormy]

Hi To be. How's it going today. Maybe not so good? Perhaps you are still trying to find the switch that will turn God off ? It appears from reading your post that you have decided to use your brain to decide your fate. Well, at least a part of your brain.

Computers deal in logic and do not need God..nor can they phantom spirituality. The human brain is so much more. Why would you want to reduce it to that of a machine? Be all you can be.

 

[Sudekai]

A machine can't think for itself. It is given a set of instructions that it follows unquestioningly. The reason you're agnostic is because you know that what people tell you to believe doesn't make sense. I was a Christian once. Anytime I asked anything about why people believe in any god, I was very quickly hushed. People who believe don't really know why they believe in their god, and that's mostly because they only believe because that's what they were raised to believe. Don't be a machine. Don't believe something until it is proven, just as you do with everything else. Why should religion be any different?

 

[smk22]

A machine can't think for itself. It is given a set of instructions that it follows unquestioningly. The reason you're agnostic is because you know that what people tell you to believe doesn't make sense. I was a Christian once. Anytime I asked anything about why people believe in any god, I was very quickly hushed. People who believe don't really know why they believe in their god, and that's mostly because they only believe because that's what they were raised to believe. Don't be a machine. Don't believe something until it is proven, just as you do with everything else. Why should religion be any different?

To be fair, Atheism contains the same self-righteous and stubborn mentality that comes along with some Christian beliefs. I am Agnostic because of the way our universe works. For every action that takes place, there is a preceding action. This is true all the way back to the first instant in time. What came before that is simply impossible to know. Is our universe the result of an infinite set of actions? Did God create the universe? Is there some fundamental property of our existence that is just completely going over our heads? Who knows.

 

[drich0150]

P.S. The burden of proof is on the person or group of people making a claim.

Your group claims God does not exist, can you prove that?

remember Lack of proof is not proof of anything. If you killed your wife, and yet there wasn't any proof it doesn't mean you didn't actually kill her.

Proof of God (In the way of the holy Spirit) comes on a personal level to all of those who earnestly seek it. If you want proof from God tayoler specifically to you then all you have to do is earnestly Ask, seek and Knock For Him.

 

[drich0150]

I was raised a Catholic, and I still have the after-effects: that tiny little voice that tells me, 'God will be disappointed in you' whenever I am about to do something considered morally wrong, e.g lying.

Despite what some of us think there isn't a specific denomination leading to God. any Jesus Christ centered Church as that potential. I say potential because all church have the same potential to lead someone in to a life of bondage and servitude to that specific religion. The catholic church is no different. there is freedom to be found in Jesus, and nothing any of us can say will deliver you into it. If you really want to know God then in your own words and in your own time seek Him, Ask for him and Keep doing so until you get what your heart is looking for.

Luke 11:
5Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'

7"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' 8I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

 

[tulipbee]

I have a friend who posted a picture of mother mary on a truck on his facebook. I thought to leave a comment and I said, "Are you being called by God?"
His reply was, "yes, and I wish he would stop"
My reply back was, "silly.
It doesn't work that way. Heres the real story you haven't really been told. Don't listen to the Arminians or they will give you popular false information.
If God calls you, you don't say, "STOP!". You only say "STOP!" when He doesn't call you. If you're called, you can't request "STOP!". You only say "STOP!" due to the Arminian friends telling you that you can say "STOP!
If you say "STOP!", then He hasn't called you. It's the local Arminians that are telling you that God calls ~ALL~ but that ain't so. ~ALL~ doesn't include those that ain't called. In other words, It's IMPOSSIBLE for Dow to ask you to receive the call. You don't need to worry about me asking you to accept the call or any type of "get saved" talk.
So, when you say, "Yes" He called you, then it would be impossible for you to ask Him to stop. in other words, it's possible that God hasn't called you, yet and maybe never will. Either way, it isn't up to you."

My friend is an agnostic and they think that all Christians are Arminians. I hope I gave him an idea that there are other theories to being called

 

[Max3k]

Shayne,

I applaud your courage to post here. The very fact that you are asking these questions is uplifting. The Lord is working on you and that is an awesome thing. You may not realize it now, but you will later. My question to you is, what are you looking to discover?

Do you believe there is a God, but just don't believe in His Son? Or don't believe that Jesus was His Son?

Do you question the very existence of God?

In my youth, my family always went to church. I attended, didn't really understand it fully. I understood bits and pieces. As I grew older I stopped going, by the time I was in college I never went and openly rebelled against anyone who tried to tell me to go.

Years later, I began to seek evidence. The Bible says, seek and ye shall find. And I did find plenty. The chuch I was visiting was doing a series on end times prophecy in relation to what is going on in the world today. I won't go into all the details here in this post, but there is plenty of evidence should you seek it out. Based on the evidence you find, you will see that Jesus is the living Son of God and that all you need to do is believe and be saved. That was 3 years ago for me.

Since then, the Lord continues to mold me and use me. He continues to love me even though I fail Him constantly. He continues to bless me according to His riches, even though I fail to give as much as I should. When it comes down to it, the only question is

Do you believe or Don't you.

Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Without Jesus, you, me and everyone else have nothing. Without Jesus, you cannot know the Father. Without Jesus, you will spend eternity in Hell. Better yet, WITH Jesus, you will spend eternity with Him.

I suggest if you are sincerely interested in finding answers to the questions you have, that you speak with a pastor or elder of a Jesus focused Church. Do not base your eternity on what you find here on a forum board.

Seek and ye shall find.

God Bless.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but are you a lunatic!?

MY FRIEND,

If you REALLY "don't mean to be rude or anything"--you have failed miserably. And please don't quote me, out of context, from other threads. Your present post has nothing at all to do with my response to the O.P. and thus is dishonest to the max.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[tavarish]

Your group claims God does not exist, can you prove that?

Burden of proof is on the person making the claim, and extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

Here's the thing about atheism, at least in my view:

It is not a belief system. There is no "faith that nothing is there". It is simply evident by all reasonable and measurable means that in all likelihood, there is no God. Can I say this with absolute certainty? Of course not, that would be absurd. There is a chance of anything happening.

There is, however an equal chance of God being real and invisible fairies being real. You can't disprove either, but for all intents and purposes, you don't acknowledge their existence because you have a lack of evidence on the matter.

remember Lack of proof is not proof of anything. If you killed your wife, and yet there wasn't any proof it doesn't mean you didn't actually kill her.

Lack of proof is not evidence. I agree. Read my above statement. I don't have to prove anything. You're the one with the burden to provide evidence for someone who is skeptical.

Proof of God (In the way of the holy Spirit) comes on a personal level to all of those who earnestly seek it. If you want proof from God tayoler specifically to you then all you have to do is earnestly Ask, seek and Knock For Him.

So in order for you to have proof, you first need to believe that he exists? That's so backwards it's not even funny. You basically said you NEED to have blind faith, or else it doesn't work. This is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You'd think, if God was a true omnipresent and benevolent being, why would he not demonstrate himself or an obvious suspension of the laws of physics? It would eliminate a lot of confusion as to what the true faith is, and would put an end to atheism.

I'd convert in a second if there were testable elements or events in life that could NOT have come from any other source. For example, if it rained living, adult frogs, worldwide, I would probably start to believe in a higher power. If all the women in the world became infertile overnight, I would probably start to believe. If people all over the world sprouted wings and flew into the sky never to be seen again, I would probably start to believe.

These are a few examples, but I do have a few more reasonable ones that would convert me on the spot.

Here's a few:

Look up "How to convert an atheist Part 1" On Youtube.

My mind can be changed. However, all arguments for God's existence have been no more than an appeal to blind faith and anecdotal evidence.