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Common Arguments for Intelligent Design

Exial

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My friend Paul summed it up pretty well in these 10 instances, and I think an unbiased eye would have no problem seeing the merit of each point....too many chars for one post, so I'll break it up...

1. The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance—they had to be designed and created.
A system that is irreducibly complex has precise components working together to perform the basic function of the system. (A mousetrap is a simple example.) If any part of that system were missing, the system would cease to function. Gradual additions could not account for the origin of such a system. It would have to come together fully formed and integrated. Many living systems exhibit this (vision, blood-clotting, etc.). When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to "happen" by chance. Yet such living systems are almost infinitely more complex than a watch. They could not be random—they simply had to be designed and created.

2. The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.
Information science teaches that in all known cases, complex information requires an intelligent message sender. This is at the core of the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI). DNA is by far the most compact information storage/retrieval system known. A pinhead of DNA has a billion times more information capacity than a 4-gigabit hard drive. Ironically, evolutionists scan the heavens using massive radio telescopes hoping for relatively simple signal patterns that might have originated in outer space, all the while ignoring the incredibly complex evidence of superior intelligence built into every human's DNA. While we're waiting to hear signs of intelligence behind interstellar communication, we're ignoring those built into us.

3. No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.
Mutations which increase genetic information would be the raw material necessary for evolution. To get from "amoeba" to "man" would require a massive net increase in information. There are many examples of supposed evolution given by proponents. Variation within a species (finch beak, for example), bacteria which acquire antibiotic resistance, people born with an extra chromosome, etc. However, none of the examples demonstrate the development of new information. Instead, they demonstrate either preprogrammed variation, multiple copies of existing information, or even loss of information (natural selection and adaptation involve loss of information). The total lack of any such evidence refutes evolutionary theory.

4. Evolution flies directly in the face of entropy, the second law of thermodynamics.
This law of physics states that all systems, whether open or closed, have a tendency to disorder (or "the least energetic state"). There are some special cases where local order can increase, but this is at the expense of greater disorder elsewhere. Raw energy cannot generate the complex systems in living things, or the information required to build them. Undirected energy just speeds up destruction. Yet, evolution is a building-up process, suggesting that things tend to become more complex and advanced over time. This is directly opposed to the law of entropy.

5. There is a total lack of undisputed examples (fossilized or living) of the millions of transitional forms ("missing links") required for evolution to be true.
Evolution does not require a single missing link, but innumerable ones. We should be surrounded by a zoo of transitional forms that cannot be categorized as one particular life form. But we don't see this—there are different kinds of dogs, but all are clearly dogs. The fossils show different sizes of horses, but all are clearly horses. None is on the verge of being some other life form. The fossil record shows complex fossilized life suddenly appearing, and there are major gaps between the fossilized "kinds." Darwin acknowledged that if his theory were true, it would require millions of transitional forms. He believed they would be found in fossil records. They haven't been.

6. Pictures of ape-to-human "missing links" are extremely subjective and based on evolutionists' already-formed assumptions. Often they are simply contrived.
The series of pictures or models that show progressive development from a little monkey to modern man are an insult to scientific research. These are often based on fragmentary remains that can be "reconstructed" a hundred different ways. The fact is, many supposed "ape-men" are very clearly apes. Evolutionists now admit that other so-called "ape-men" would be able to have children by modern humans, which makes them the same species as humans. The main species said to b***** this gap, Homo habilis, is thought by many to be a mixture of ape and human fossils. In other words, the "missing link" (in reality there would have to be millions of them) is still missing. The body hair and the blank expressions of sub-humans in these models doesn't come from the bones, but the assumptions of the artist. Virtually nothing can be determined about hair and the look in someone's eyes based on a few old bones.

7. The dating methods that evolutionists rely upon to assign millions and billions of years to rocks are very inconsistent and based on unproven (and questionable) assumptions.
Dating methods that use radioactive decay to determine age assume that radioactive decay rates have always been constant. Yet, research has shown that decay rates can change according to the chemical environment of the material being tested. In fact, decay rates have been increased in the laboratory by a factor of a billion. All such dating methods also assume a closed system—that no isotopes were gained or lost by the rock since it formed. It's common knowledge that hydrothermal waters, at temperatures of only a few hundred degrees Centigrade, can create an open system where chemicals move easily from one rock system to another. In fact, this process is one of the excuses used by evolutionists to reject dates that don't fit their expectations. What's not commonly known is that the majority of dates are not even consistent for the same rock. Furthermore, 20th century lava flows often register dates in the millions to billions of years. There are many different ways of dating the earth, and many of them point to an earth much too young for evolution to have had a chance. All age-dating methods rely on unprovable assumptions.

8. Uses continue to be found for supposedly "leftover" body structures.
Evolutionists point to useless and vestigial (leftover) body structures as evidence of evolution. However, it's impossible to prove that an organ is useless, because there's always the possibility that a use may be discovered in the future. That's been the case for over 100 supposedly useless organs which are now known to be essential. Scientists continue to discover uses for such organs. It's worth noting that even if an organ were no longer needed (e.g., eyes of blind creatures in caves), it would prove devolution not evolution. The evolutionary hypothesis needs to find examples of developing organs—those that are increasing in complexity.

9. Evolution is said to have begun by spontaneous generation—a concept ridiculed by biology.
When I was a sophomore in high school, and a brand new Christian, my biology class spent the first semester discussing how ignorant people used to believe that garbage gave rise to rats, and raw meat produced maggots. This now disproven concept was called "spontaneous generation." Louis Pasteur proved that life only comes from life—this is the law of biogenesis. The next semester we studied evolution, where we learned that the first living cell came from a freak combination of nonliving material (where that nonliving material came from we were not told). "Chemical Evolution" is just another way of saying "spontaneous generation"—life comes from nonlife. Evolution is therefore built on a fallacy science long ago proved to be impossible.

Evolutionists admit that the chances of evolutionary progress are extremely low. Yet, they believe that given enough time, the apparently impossible becomes possible. If I flip a coin, I have a 50/50 chance of getting heads. To get five "heads" in a row is unlikely but possible. If I flipped the coin long enough, I would eventually get five in a row. If I flipped it for years nonstop, I might get 50 or even 100 in a row. But this is only because getting heads is an inherent possibility. What are the chances of me flipping a coin, and then seeing it sprout arms and legs, and go sit in a corner and read a magazine? No chance. Given billions of years, the chances would never increase. Great periods of time make the possible likely but never make the impossible possible. No matter how long it's given, non-life will not become alive.

10. The scientific method can only test existing data—it cannot draw conclusions about origins.
Micro-evolution, changes within a species on a small scale, is observable. But evidence for macro-evolution, changes transcending species, is conspicuous by its absence. To prove the possibility of anything, science must be able to reproduce exact original conditions. Even when it proves something is possible, it doesn't mean it therefore happened. Since no man was there to record or even witness the beginning, conclusions must be made only on the basis of interpreting presently available information. If I put on rose-colored glasses, I will always see red. I accept the Bible's teaching on creation, and see the evidence as being consistently supportive of that belief. When dealing with origins, everyone who believes anything does so by faith, whether faith in God, the Bible, himself, modern science, or the dependability of his own subjective interpretations of existing data. I would rather put my faith in God's revealed Word.
 

AV1611VET

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No need to post more, your friend failed already.
4. Evolution flies directly in the face of entropy, the second law of thermodynamics​
First of all, the First Law of Thermodynamics did not exist when the earth was created.

God created the universe in six days.

This means that the amount of mass/energy in the universe started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

Second of all, the Second Law of Thermodynamics did not exist until about BC 4003.
 
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SpaceMadness

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First of all, the First Law of Thermodynamics did not exist when the earth was created.

God created the universe in six days.

This means that the amount of mass/energy in the universe started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

Second of all, the Second Law of Thermodynamics did not exist until about BC 4003.

I know, and the triceratops was used to carry small children around before the flood. Also irrelevant information to the argument i highlighted.
 
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SithDoughnut

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The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance—they had to be designed and created.

I've yet to see anything that has actually been shown to be too complex to evolve. People like to claim the eye is one, yet we know how that evolved:

en[dot]wikipedia[dot]org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

And of course, if everything complex had to be created, who created God? If God is eternal and needs no creator, why would that be any more likely that Evolution?

The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.

Comparing human technology to biology in this way means that the argument fails by itself. Saying "it's too complex" is not a reason, unless you have evidence of a creator.

No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.

Increases? Most differences between species are due to changes in genes, not extra ones bolted on. You share the majority of your DNA with a cabbage, for example, it's the differences between you that makes you so different.

Evolution flies directly in the face of entropy, the second law of thermodynamics.

This needs much more explanation, as I cannot concieve how it is actually considered a reasonable argument.

There is a total lack of undisputed examples (fossilized or living) of the millions of transitional forms ("missing links") required for evolution to be true.

Every species is in a constant state of mutation and (not always, but often) evolution. You want to see a transitional species? Look in the mirror. Every species is transitional, and the rarity of fossils means that there will always be gaps. We've discovered ape-like humans that walk on two legs and that no longer exist, they're a transitional species that would refute that argument.

Pictures of ape-to-human "missing links" are extremely subjective and based on evolutionists' already-formed assumptions. Often they are simply contrived.

Proof please. I don't believe that at all.

The dating methods that evolutionists rely upon to assign millions and billions of years to rocks are very inconsistent and based on unproven (and questionable) assumptions.

And that argument has what to do with evolution exactly?

Uses continue to be found for supposedly "leftover" body structures.

Indeed they do, because we don't fully understand the human body yet. The extrinsic ear muscles are a useless body part we still have. In other animals it allows them to move their ears. In us, they're useless, unless you have an important survival strategy that involves the ability to wiggle your ears a bit.

Evolution is said to have begun by spontaneous generation—a concept ridiculed by biology.

Those are two separate scientific theories. A mistake I regularly see creationists make is to assume that they are the same theory. If spontaneous generation, one of many theories, is wrong, that does not mean evolution is wrong. It means spontaneous generation is wrong. Evolution does not try to explain how life began, and so it shouldn't have anything to do with it in any debate.

Evolutionists admit that the chances of evolutionary progress are extremely low. Yet, they believe that given enough time, the apparently impossible becomes possible.

Read what you wrote again. Extremely low does not mean apparently impossible. If you want proof of evolutionary progress, look at how viruses develop resistences to certain medicines. That's evolutionary progress right there.

The scientific method can only test existing data—it cannot draw conclusions about origins.

We don't see 'macro-evolution' because we don't live for millions of years. However, the word itself is nonsense. There is only evolution. When someone actually proves that micro-evolution can happen while macro-evolution can't, then I'll consider using the terms. Made up words by creationists are not an argument.

Of course, all this is ignoring a very important point, and one that should be addressed by every creationist. I'll even put it in bold, it's that important:

If Evolution is wrong, that DOES NOT MEAN CREATIONISM IS CORRECT. If you disprove Evolution, all you've done is disproved Evolution. If you want to show that Creationism is fact, you have to show that Creationism is fact. After all, if Evolution is wrong there may be a third theory that we don't know about yet. As a result, nothing written in the OP is proof FOR creationism, it is merely an argument against evolution.

Read that. Memorise it. I see Creationists make that mistake too often to count.
 
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rjw

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My friend Paul summed it up pretty well in these 10 instances, and I think an unbiased eye would have no problem seeing the merit of each point....too many chars for one post, so I'll break it up...

1. The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance—they had to be designed and created.
A system that is irreducibly complex has precise components working together to perform the basic function of the system. (A mousetrap is a simple example.) If any part of that system were missing, the system would cease to function. Gradual additions could not account for the origin of such a system. It would have to come together fully formed and integrated. Many living systems exhibit this (vision, blood-clotting, etc.). When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to "happen" by chance. Yet such living systems are almost infinitely more complex than a watch. They could not be random—they simply had to be designed and created.


[snip]
Let's just take this one example.

I look at the complexity of a watch and know that it could not have come about by chance.

I look at the complexity of life and know that it could not have come about by chance.

Yet I accept that natural abiogenesis occurred and that evolution both occurred and occurs.

So clearly both abiogenesis and evolution cannot be about chance alone, can they? So why imply that they must be?

Furthermore, you appear to wish for explanation as to how things happen. So how does an ID explain how life was designed, and then made once it was designed?



Regards, Roland
 
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BigBadWlf

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My friend Paul summed it up pretty well in these 10 instances, and I think an unbiased eye would have no problem seeing the merit of each point....too many chars for one post, so I'll break it up...
Taking a quick crack at these….just to see if I remember high school science


1. The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance—they had to be designed and created.
Demonstrates lack of understanding about the theory of evolution. The ToE doesn’t operate by chance it is a life directed process where the more fit organisms pass on their adaptive traits to their offspring

A system that is irreducibly complex has precise components working together to perform the basic function of the system. (A mousetrap is a simple example.) If any part of that system were missing, the system would cease to function. Gradual additions could not account for the origin of such a system. It would have to come together fully formed and integrated. Many living systems exhibit this (vision, blood-clotting, etc.). When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to "happen" by chance. Yet such living systems are almost infinitely more complex than a watch. They could not be random—they simply had to be designed and created.
The mousetrap thing was ripped apart a few years ago in a courtroom…some school board was trying to force ID onto their students. The lawyers removed a trigger mechanism form a mousetrap and wore them as tie clips. They were not stylish but they were very effective as tie clips

2. The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.
Unsupported assertion. I believe it is the logical fallacy argument from ignorance.. This is the fallacy of assuming something is false simply because one cannot prove or understand how it could be true

Information science teaches that in all known cases, complex information requires an intelligent message sender. This is at the core of the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI). DNA is by far the most compact information storage/retrieval system known. A pinhead of DNA has a billion times more information capacity than a 4-gigabit hard drive. Ironically, evolutionists scan the heavens using massive radio telescopes hoping for relatively simple signal patterns that might have originated in outer space, all the while ignoring the incredibly complex evidence of superior intelligence built into every human's DNA. While we're waiting to hear signs of intelligence behind interstellar communication, we're ignoring those built into us.
Human DNA is no more complex than a chickens and much simpler than the DNA of corn

3. No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.
Mutations which increase genetic information would be the raw material necessary for evolution. To get from "amoeba" to "man" would require a massive net increase in information. There are many examples of supposed evolution given by proponents. Variation within a species (finch beak, for example), bacteria which acquire antibiotic resistance, people born with an extra chromosome, etc. However, none of the examples demonstrate the development of new information. Instead, they demonstrate either preprogrammed variation, multiple copies of existing information, or even loss of information (natural selection and adaptation involve loss of information). The total lack of any such evidence refutes evolutionary theory.
Again the logical fallacy argument from ignorance.. This is the fallacy of assuming something is false simply because one cannot prove, has not proved or cannot understand how it could be true

4. Evolution flies directly in the face of entropy, the second law of thermodynamics.
This law of physics states that all systems, whether open or closed, have a tendency to disorder (or "the least energetic state"). There are some special cases where local order can increase, but this is at the expense of greater disorder elsewhere. Raw energy cannot generate the complex systems in living things, or the information required to build them. Undirected energy just speeds up destruction. Yet, evolution is a building-up process, suggesting that things tend to become more complex and advanced over time. This is directly opposed to the law of entropy.
Which would be a good argument if the earth was a closed system. But there is that enormous ball of hot glowing gas in the sky constantly feeding new energy into the system
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html
completely rips this point to shreds


5. There is a total lack of undisputed examples (fossilized or living) of the millions of transitional forms ("missing links") required for evolution to be true.
Except for all the thousands of transitional fossils being ignored to make this point
Here is a very very short list of known transitional fossils
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils


Evolution does not require a single missing link, but innumerable ones. We should be surrounded by a zoo of transitional forms that cannot be categorized as one particular life form. But we don't see this—there are different kinds of dogs, but all are clearly dogs. The fossils show different sizes of horses, but all are clearly horses. None is on the verge of being some other life form.
Horses evolved from hyacotherium which was about the size of a cat and hade multiple toes and looked nothing like a horse at all.


The fossil record shows complex fossilized life suddenly appearing, and there are major gaps between the fossilized "kinds." Darwin acknowledged that if his theory were true, it would require millions of transitional forms. He believed they would be found in fossil records. They haven't been.
Transitional fossils exist in abundance and claiming they do not is just dishonest


6. Pictures of ape-to-human "missing links" are extremely subjective and based on evolutionists' already-formed assumptions. Often they are simply contrived.
The series of pictures or models that show progressive development from a little monkey to modern man are an insult to scientific research. These are often based on fragmentary remains that can be "reconstructed" a hundred different ways. The fact is, many supposed "ape-men" are very clearly apes.

Australopithecus afarensis…the most famous fozzil of theis line is Lucy… flies in the face of this claim. Australopithecus had both human like features (pelvis, feet) and ape like features (enlarged jaw, equivelant brain size). Meaning thaht Lucy was not a human and not an ape but soemthing inbetween

It is interesting how your friend Paul managed to alter the definition of “transitional” to suit his own agenda here. One often runs into this when dealing with creationists…they will change the definition of “transitional fossils” to exclude transitional fossils and then ignore their new definition when it becomes inconvenient for them




Evolutionists now admit that other so-called "ape-men" would be able to have children by modern humans, which makes them the same species as humans. The main species said to b***** this gap, Homo habilis, is thought by many to be a mixture of ape and human fossils. In other words, the "missing link" (in reality there would have to be millions of them) is still missing. The body hair and the blank expressions of sub-humans in these models doesn't come from the bones, but the assumptions of the artist. Virtually nothing can be determined about hair and the look in someone's eyes based on a few old bones.


7. The dating methods that evolutionists rely upon to assign millions and billions of years to rocks are very inconsistent and based on unproven (and questionable) assumptions.
It is possible (but rare) to have a false reading from such dating yielding an incorrect age.
But that fact that hit is possible is not evidnece that al dating must be wrong. This iss why no reputable researchers use a single method of dating but several indlucing radioactive dating, geological setting, specimien chemisty. This cross checking of different methods helps esatblish the possibility of a flase age.





8. Uses continue to be found for supposedly "leftover" body structures.
Evolutionists point to useless and vestigial (leftover) body structures as evidence of evolution. However, it's impossible to prove that an organ is useless, because there's always the possibility that a use may be discovered in the future. That's been the case for over 100 supposedly useless organs which are now known to be essential. Scientists continue to discover uses for such organs. It's worth noting that even if an organ were no longer needed (e.g., eyes of blind creatures in caves), it would prove devolution not evolution. The evolutionary hypothesis needs to find examples of developing organs—those that are increasing in complexity.
It would actually show evolution as the triats disapearing are being slected for. Snakes evolved form four limed repitles and their embrios retain leg buds which do not grow beyond the early embrio state. The snake is not devolved but evoled to fit specific nich in nautre


9. Evolution is said to have begun by spontaneous generation—a concept ridiculed by biology.
What is ridiculed in science is the misuse of this phrase


Evolutionists admit that the chances of evolutionary progress are extremely low.
They do? Where?

Yet, they believe that given enough time, the apparently impossible becomes possible. If I flip a coin, I have a 50/50 chance of getting heads. To get five "heads" in a row is unlikely but possible. If I flipped the coin long enough, I would eventually get five in a row. If I flipped it for years nonstop, I might get 50 or even 100 in a row. But this is only because getting heads is an inherent possibility. What are the chances of me flipping a coin, and then seeing it sprout arms and legs, and go sit in a corner and read a magazine? No chance. Given billions of years, the chances would never increase. Great periods of time make the possible likely but never make the impossible possible. No matter how long it's given, non-life will not become alive.
Demonstrates lack of understanding about the theory of evolution. The ToE doesn’t operate by chance it is a life directed process where the more fit organisms pass on their adaptive traits to their offspring


10. The scientific method can only test existing data—it cannot draw conclusions about origins.
Micro-evolution, changes within a species on a small scale, is observable. But evidence for macro-evolution, changes transcending species, is conspicuous by its absence. To prove the possibility of anything, science must be able to reproduce exact original conditions. Even when it proves something is possible, it doesn't mean it therefore happened.
Ignoring observations made in supprot of evolution won’t make them go away

Since no man was there to record or even witness the beginning, conclusions must be made only on the basis of interpreting presently available information. If I put on rose-colored glasses, I will always see red. I accept the Bible's teaching on creation, and see the evidence as being consistently supportive of that belief. When dealing with origins, everyone who believes anything does so by faith, whether faith in God, the Bible, himself, modern science, or the dependability of his own subjective interpretations of existing data. I would rather put my faith in God's revealed Word.
It is interesting that hyour friend won’t apply any of the reasosning to creationism htat he demands of evolution



The worst failure in this list is the fact that your friend engages in nothing but negative proof. Attacking the ToE does nothing to provide evidnece for creatioism/intellignet design
 
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Split Rock

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Hi Exial :wave:
1. The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance—they had to be designed and created.
A system that is irreducibly complex has precise components working together to perform the basic function of the system. (A mousetrap is a simple example.) If any part of that system were missing, the system would cease to function. Gradual additions could not account for the origin of such a system. It would have to come together fully formed and integrated. Many living systems exhibit this (vision, blood-clotting, etc.). When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to "happen" by chance. Yet such living systems are almost infinitely more complex than a watch. They could not be random—they simply had to be designed and created.
I.R. fails since it makes unwarrented restrictions for the evolution of systems.
1. indivdual parts do not change in form or function
2. parts cannot be removed, only added (eg. no scaffolding)
3. the function of the system itself does not change.
These are all false assumptions.
In addition, no one has found a specific system that is truly I.C. (one that cannot suffer the lose of even a single part).

2. The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.
Information science teaches that in all known cases, complex information requires an intelligent message sender. This is at the core of the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI). DNA is by far the most compact information storage/retrieval system known. A pinhead of DNA has a billion times more information capacity than a 4-gigabit hard drive. Ironically, evolutionists scan the heavens using massive radio telescopes hoping for relatively simple signal patterns that might have originated in outer space, all the while ignoring the incredibly complex evidence of superior intelligence built into every human's DNA. While we're waiting to hear signs of intelligence behind interstellar communication, we're ignoring those built into us.
SETI looks for signals not already known to be caused by nature... not signals that have a certain level of complexity.


3. No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.
Mutations which increase genetic information would be the raw material necessary for evolution. To get from "amoeba" to "man" would require a massive net increase in information. There are many examples of supposed evolution given by proponents. Variation within a species (finch beak, for example), bacteria which acquire antibiotic resistance, people born with an extra chromosome, etc. However, none of the examples demonstrate the development of new information. Instead, they demonstrate either preprogrammed variation, multiple copies of existing information, or even loss of information (natural selection and adaptation involve loss of information). The total lack of any such evidence refutes evolutionary theory.
Please define "information" in this context. Also, tell us how to determine the complexity of the "information" in a strand of DNA and how it would change with an addition of "information." Then we can talk about whether it is possible or not to increase the information in DNA.

4. Evolution flies directly in the face of entropy, the second law of thermodynamics.
This law of physics states that all systems, whether open or closed, have a tendency to disorder (or "the least energetic state"). There are some special cases where local order can increase, but this is at the expense of greater disorder elsewhere. Raw energy cannot generate the complex systems in living things, or the information required to build them. Undirected energy just speeds up destruction. Yet, evolution is a building-up process, suggesting that things tend to become more complex and advanced over time. This is directly opposed to the law of entropy.
Entropy deals with heat, not complexity. In any case, local increases in entropy are not disallowed as long as the entropy of the system increases. The net entropy of our solar system is increasing, even as life uses part of the energy from the sun to maintain homeostasis, grow and reproduce. As long as life continues, it will evolve. If it doesn't stop life from continuing, it cannot sop it from evolving.

5. There is a total lack of undisputed examples (fossilized or living) of the millions of transitional forms ("missing links") required for evolution to be true.
Evolution does not require a single missing link, but innumerable ones. We should be surrounded by a zoo of transitional forms that cannot be categorized as one particular life form. But we don't see this—there are different kinds of dogs, but all are clearly dogs. The fossils show different sizes of horses, but all are clearly horses. None is on the verge of being some other life form. The fossil record shows complex fossilized life suddenly appearing, and there are major gaps between the fossilized "kinds." Darwin acknowledged that if his theory were true, it would require millions of transitional forms. He believed they would be found in fossil records. They haven't been.
Fossilization is a rare process. This is why we do not find most transitionals. However, we find enough. Just go visit your local natural history museum. There are numerous examples of transitionals between fish and tetrapods, reptiles and mammals, humans and non-human apes, etc.

6. Pictures of ape-to-human "missing links" are extremely subjective and based on evolutionists' already-formed assumptions. Often they are simply contrived.
The series of pictures or models that show progressive development from a little monkey to modern man are an insult to scientific research. These are often based on fragmentary remains that can be "reconstructed" a hundred different ways. The fact is, many supposed "ape-men" are very clearly apes. Evolutionists now admit that other so-called "ape-men" would be able to have children by modern humans, which makes them the same species as humans. The main species said to b***** this gap, Homo habilis, is thought by many to be a mixture of ape and human fossils. In other words, the "missing link" (in reality there would have to be millions of them) is still missing. The body hair and the blank expressions of sub-humans in these models doesn't come from the bones, but the assumptions of the artist. Virtually nothing can be determined about hair and the look in someone's eyes based on a few old bones.
1. We are clever apes.
2. Homo Habilis is not a mixture of human and "ape" fossils. That is a lie.
3. We do not need hair of eye color to reconstruct hominid species.

7. The dating methods that evolutionists rely upon to assign millions and billions of years to rocks are very inconsistent and based on unproven (and questionable) assumptions.
Dating methods that use radioactive decay to determine age assume that radioactive decay rates have always been constant. Yet, research has shown that decay rates can change according to the chemical environment of the material being tested. In fact, decay rates have been increased in the laboratory by a factor of a billion. All such dating methods also assume a closed system—that no isotopes were gained or lost by the rock since it formed. It's common knowledge that hydrothermal waters, at temperatures of only a few hundred degrees Centigrade, can create an open system where chemicals move easily from one rock system to another. In fact, this process is one of the excuses used by evolutionists to reject dates that don't fit their expectations. What's not commonly known is that the majority of dates are not even consistent for the same rock. Furthermore, 20th century lava flows often register dates in the millions to billions of years. There are many different ways of dating the earth, and many of them point to an earth much too young for evolution to have had a chance. All age-dating methods rely on unprovable assumptions.
1. Radioactive decay cannnot be changed except under extreme circumstances, which you have (or your sources) purposely neglected to mention.
2. Radioisotope dating methods take into account the fact that we do not know the starting concentrations of isotopes and the fact that some systems were open at one time. In other words, geologists are not stupid.
3. There is no accurate dating method that shows the earth to be young. None.

8. Uses continue to be found for supposedly "leftover" body structures.
Evolutionists point to useless and vestigial (leftover) body structures as evidence of evolution. However, it's impossible to prove that an organ is useless, because there's always the possibility that a use may be discovered in the future. That's been the case for over 100 supposedly useless organs which are now known to be essential. Scientists continue to discover uses for such organs. It's worth noting that even if an organ were no longer needed (e.g., eyes of blind creatures in caves), it would prove devolution not evolution. The evolutionary hypothesis needs to find examples of developing organs—those that are increasing in complexity.
Vestigial organs do not have to have no function... just not serve the same function as it does in ancestral or related species. For example, penguin wings can be considered vestigial becasue they are not used for flight. They still allow the penguin to swim, however. The wings of flightless birds are vestigial, even if they can be used for balance while running, but are not used for flight.

9. Evolution is said to have begun by spontaneous generation—a concept ridiculed by biology.
When I was a sophomore in high school, and a brand new Christian, my biology class spent the first semester discussing how ignorant people used to believe that garbage gave rise to rats, and raw meat produced maggots. This now disproven concept was called "spontaneous generation." Louis Pasteur proved that life only comes from life—this is the law of biogenesis. The next semester we studied evolution, where we learned that the first living cell came from a freak combination of nonliving material (where that nonliving material came from we were not told). "Chemical Evolution" is just another way of saying "spontaneous generation"—life comes from nonlife. Evolution is therefore built on a fallacy science long ago proved to be impossible.
No one claims that evolution began by spontaneous generation. Spontaneous generation produces complex organims in a single step. Abiogenesis does not. This has nothing to do with biological evolution in any case. The Theory of Evolution explains the origin of species, not life.

Evolutionists admit that the chances of evolutionary progress are extremely low. Yet, they believe that given enough time, the apparently impossible becomes possible. If I flip a coin, I have a 50/50 chance of getting heads. To get five "heads" in a row is unlikely but possible. If I flipped the coin long enough, I would eventually get five in a row. If I flipped it for years nonstop, I might get 50 or even 100 in a row. But this is only because getting heads is an inherent possibility. What are the chances of me flipping a coin, and then seeing it sprout arms and legs, and go sit in a corner and read a magazine? No chance. Given billions of years, the chances would never increase. Great periods of time make the possible likely but never make the impossible possible. No matter how long it's given, non-life will not become alive.
This is again abiogenesis, not evolution.

10. The scientific method can only test existing data—it cannot draw conclusions about origins.
Micro-evolution, changes within a species on a small scale, is observable. But evidence for macro-evolution, changes transcending species, is conspicuous by its absence. To prove the possibility of anything, science must be able to reproduce exact original conditions. Even when it proves something is possible, it doesn't mean it therefore happened. Since no man was there to record or even witness the beginning, conclusions must be made only on the basis of interpreting presently available information. If I put on rose-colored glasses, I will always see red. I accept the Bible's teaching on creation, and see the evidence as being consistently supportive of that belief. When dealing with origins, everyone who believes anything does so by faith, whether faith in God, the Bible, himself, modern science, or the dependability of his own subjective interpretations of existing data. I would rather put my faith in God's revealed Word.

1. The past leaves its mark on the present. That is why forensics are admitable in our justice system. Our bodies and genes carry the baggage of our ancestry. They can be studied and experimented with.

2. You are not putting your faith in God's revealed word... only in your interpretation of scripture. Your interpretation is fallible.

3. Common ancestry is inferred by all the scientific data. Creationism is inferred only by your interpretation of The Bible.
 
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Exial

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Thankyou for your replies.

Paul does not exist, and these are not my questions. They were posed to me by somebody else on a completely different forum and rather me spend hours researching excellent answers to these questions I posted them on here for you fine people to do so.

My apologies for the deception.

Btw, I am of the opinion that life we see today is a result of continual gradual change that is best explained by the modern evolutionary synthesis.
 
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Split Rock

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Thankyou for your replies.

Paul does not exist, and these are not my questions. They were posed to me by somebody else on a completely different forum and rather me spend hours researching excellent answers to these questions I posted them on here for you fine people to do so.

My apologies for the deception.

Btw, I am of the opinion that life we see today is a result of continual gradual change that is best explained by the modern evolutionary synthesis.

The deception was hardly necessary. You could have told us where the questions really came from in the first place, and we would have responded. Anything to help out a fellow devil-worshipping, godless, evolutionist! :wave:
 
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rjw

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Thankyou for your replies.

Paul does not exist, and these are not my questions. They were posed to me by somebody else on a completely different forum and rather me spend hours researching excellent answers to these questions I posted them on here for you fine people to do so.

My apologies for the deception.

Btw, I am of the opinion that life we see today is a result of continual gradual change that is best explained by the modern evolutionary synthesis.
The atheist symbol at the top or your post did have me scratching my head. :)


Good luck against your opponent.



Regards, Roland
 
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Gracchus

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Second of all, the Second Law of Thermodynamics did not exist until about BC 4003.
Thermodynamics is the science of heat flow. (thermo: heat: dynamics: flow) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that heat will not spontaneously flow from a cold object to a warmer one. That is all it says! Really!

What has that to do with evolution?

:confused:

The answer is: nothing. But it is not in your Bible, which you say is all you need, so, since thermodynamics is not addressed in the Bible, you know nothing of it.

You say your Bible is all you need, but from the fact that you keep posting here, the same idiosyncratic nonsense over and over, it is apparent you really crave attention. If you were standing on a soapbox on a street corner, you would be arrested as a public nuisance and hospitalized for your own protection.

:wave:
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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Thermodynamics is the science of heat flow. (thermo: heat: dynamics: flow) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that heat will not spontaneously flow from a cold object to a warmer one. That is all it says! Really!

What has that to do with evolution?

:confused:

The answer is: nothing. But it is not in your Bible, which you say is all you need, so, since thermodynamics is not addressed in the Bible, you know nothing of it.

You say your Bible is all you need, but from the fact that you keep posting here, the same idiosyncratic nonsense over and over, it is apparent you really crave attention. If you were standing on a soapbox on a street corner, you would be arrested as a public nuisance and hospitalized for your own protection.

:wave:
^_^
 
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Jipsah

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First of all, the First Law of Thermodynamics did not exist when the earth was created.
God created the universe in six days.
On what day did He lay down the Law of Thermodynamics, then?
Second of all, the Second Law of Thermodynamics did not exist until about BC 4003.
I thought Creation only took SIX 24 HOUR DAYS!!! Was there anything else God put off putting in place for a few thousand years?
 
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AV1611VET

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On what day did He lay down the Law of Thermodynamics, then?

The Sixth Day, when He rested from His work and stopped raising the level of mass/energy is when I think He implemented the First Law of Thermodynamics.

I thought Creation only took SIX 24 HOUR DAYS!!!

You thought correctly, my friend.

Was there anything else God put off putting in place for a few thousand years?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics was implemented at the Fall, when decay set in.
 
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Jipsah

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The Second Law of Thermodynamics was implemented at the Fall, when decay set in.
Is that a matter of dogma amongst YECs? I'm of the opinion that all of the Laws of Nature were part of God's original design, and that none of them were afterthoughts.
 
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AV1611VET

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Is that a matter of dogma amongst YECs?

I don't know.

I'm not a YEC.

I'm of the opinion that all of the Laws of Nature were part of God's original design, and that none of them were afterthoughts.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


Translation:

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of [God's creation] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For
[the universe] was made subject to [entropy], not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the
[universe] itself also shall be delivered from the [Second Law of Thermodynamics] into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
 
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