Is God objective or subjective?

[kevlite2020]

I've seen this attitude so prevelant lately... So many people seem to think God is subjective and their views on Him can be whatever they want because since nobody knows the perfect truth, everything can be whatever they want it to be. I feel like this is a really bad perversion of our view of God. Many people pick and choose what they want to believe in the OT/NT, and if something doesn't line up with their feelings, they just say that verse/passage/book isn't true, or an error, or whatever.

The simple fact is, if the God of the Bible is real, He is objective. He doesn't change to be whatever every individual wants Him to be because He was not made for us, we were made for Him. When we try to twist His image to whatever we want it to be, we are making ourselves gods and tarnishing His glorious image.

I know, I'm already waiting for the responses of "but you can't know the perfect truth, who are you to say that you do?" The thing is, I'm not claiming I know everything. I know I don't. I don't think any man will ever know the complete 100% truth about every aspect of God while in this world. But we can clearly see God's attributes and understand how to obtain salvation and how to live according to His standards by His word. Does the average joe need to know more than that? Intense theologic debates, does it help the body of Christ? I don't think there's a situation where it does, it just causes dissention and separation. Why can't we stop nitpicking little things and just embrace each other in joy, worshipping and praising God for what we know about Him and what He has done for us?

If I were to pick my way through the Bible and say that I will only believe bits and pieces of it, I'd feel horrible. I can't do that to God. He gave us that book so we could understand Him and it bothers me to see people try to "understand Him" by filling in the blanks with their understanding and feelings instead of consulting the Bible. Our views may be subjective, but our God is objective. He is truth, whether we want to accept it (and Him) or not.

Sorry if this sounds like an angry rant, but I just don't like seeing the body of Christ so badly divided in this day and age, and seeing other religions/non-religions creeping in and impacting Christianity and our view of God.

 

[kevlite2020]

sorry I didn't pose any questions and I wanted to, hit post too fast! ahhh anyways...

Do you think God is objective, or is He whatever we want Him to be?

Do you think debating theological points are healthy and good for the church, or not?

Do you think the Bible tells us enough to know as much as we need to know about God on this earth?

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I've seen this attitude so prevelant lately... So many people seem to think God is subjective and their views on Him can be whatever they want because since nobody knows the perfect truth, everything can be whatever they want it to be. I feel like this is a really bad perversion of our view of God. Many people pick and choose what they want to believe in the OT/NT, and if something doesn't line up with their feelings, they just say that verse/passage/book isn't true, or an error, or whatever.

The simple fact is, if the God of the Bible is real, He is objective. He doesn't change to be whatever every individual wants Him to be because He was not made for us, we were made for Him. When we try to twist His image to whatever we want it to be, we are making ourselves gods and tarnishing His glorious image.

I know, I'm already waiting for the responses of "but you can't know the perfect truth, who are you to say that you do?" The thing is, I'm not claiming I know everything. I know I don't. I don't think any man will ever know the complete 100% truth about every aspect of God while in this world. But we can clearly see God's attributes and understand how to obtain salvation and how to live according to His standards by His word. Does the average joe need to know more than that? Intense theologic debates, does it help the body of Christ? I don't think there's a situation where it does, it just causes dissention and separation. Why can't we stop nitpicking little things and just embrace each other in joy, worshipping and praising God for what we know about Him and what He has done for us?

If I were to pick my way through the Bible and say that I will only believe bits and pieces of it, I'd feel horrible. I can't do that to God. He gave us that book so we could understand Him and it bothers me to see people try to "understand Him" by filling in the blanks with their understanding and feelings instead of consulting the Bible. Our views may be subjective, but our God is objective. He is truth, whether we want to accept it (and Him) or not.

Sorry if this sounds like an angry rant, but I just don't like seeing the body of Christ so badly divided in this day and age, and seeing other religions/non-religions creeping in and impacting Christianity and our view of God.

I think I will stay out of this one. I don't think anyone will want to hear what I have to say.

 

[kevlite2020]

I think I will stay out of this one. I don't think anyone will want to hear what I have to say.

I want to hear it! You can always pm me if you don't want to post it here (but you don't have to pm me if you don't want).

 

[LadyL]

I'm gonna agree with you, Kev.
God is GOD and we are not. We cannot pick and choose. The Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost will guide us, but never against scripture.

I think the Bible is God's book on how to live life- period. Anything not in it? Ask Him about it and really ask, don't just assume- I've done that and it's distressing.

God really knows best, I don't know how many times we have to go through trouble and heartache before we realize that. But all of his laws are for us. To protect us.

 

[Lange]

Hey all,

I really think that he is objective. The problem is, we don't always understand every detail. But all Christians agree on some basic things and that everything else, God will understand so long as we do them in the honest belief that we are doing the right thing.

So...that was a complicated way of saying I agree.

- Rollin​

 

[Oddish]

Great thread Kev, I really agree. I think it is a fear of losing our independence which makes us do this, it is like some christians do not want to give their whole mind and body to Christ. I know this because I struggle with this at times.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I want to hear it! You can always pm me if you don't want to post it here (but you don't have to pm me if you don't want).

Messaged you on FB.

 

[trentlogain2]

I agree with you 100% on this one. The problem is that many people interpret The Bible different ways which leads to inconsistencies on the readers part, but what they are probably doing is getting rid of the parts that don't sit well with them. I've done a little digging and I've come to the conclusion that the only way to interpret The Bible is literally. I mean there are other ways that people like to interpret, but most (if not all) others do not regard The Holy Bible as inerrant and completely inspired by the Holy Ghost.

 

[kevlite2020]

I'm gonna agree with you, Kev.
God is GOD and we are not. We cannot pick and choose. The Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost will guide us, but never against scripture.

I think the Bible is God's book on how to live life- period. Anything not in it? Ask Him about it and really ask, don't just assume- I've done that and it's distressing.

God really knows best, I don't know how many times we have to go through trouble and heartache before we realize that. But all of his laws are for us. To protect us.

You're right Lady that it's really laid out in the Bible and if something is digging at us that we can't find within the teachings of the Bible, we can find through guidance of the Holy Spirit (as long as we get ourselves out of the way and don't confuse that guidance with our own feelings)

Hey all,​

I really think that he is objective. The problem is, we don't always understand every detail. But all Christians agree on some basic things and that everything else, God will understand so long as we do them in the honest belief that we are doing the right thing.​

So...that was a complicated way of saying I agree.​

- Rollin​

I get what you are saying. God wants us to dilligently and honestly seek Him, I think that's what you are getting at?

Great thread Kev, I really agree. I think it is a fear of losing our independence which makes us do this, it is like some christians do not want to give their whole mind and body to Christ. I know this because I struggle with this at times.

I agree that this is a huge part of it, as I struggle with that too sometimes. It's hard to say that God is God and I'm just a humble servant. Many people fall into that trap of wanting to say, well I know God better than He knows Himself because the god I want would be like this, this and this, he wouldn't do this... It's all a fleshly feeling of wanting to control God and be the boss.

Messaged you on FB.

Thanks! I messaged you back there!

I agree with you 100% on this one. The problem is that many people interpret The Bible different ways which leads to inconsistencies on the readers part, but what they are probably doing is getting rid of the parts that don't sit well with them. I've done a little digging and I've come to the conclusion that the only way to interpret The Bible is literally. I mean there are other ways that people like to interpret, but most (if not all) others do not regard The Holy Bible as inerrant and completely inspired by the Holy Ghost.

I started to do that when I was first a believer, not necessarily getting rid of parts that I didn't like, more like ignoring them. I didn't want to hear some of the commandments that I broke so easily and it took me awhile to be able to say, okay God, these are Your commandments for me, not my feelings for whatever I think might be right. I submit to You and Your will and Your law, not my own. But that's where I think all of us should be heading to is to get to that point and work hard to stay there, where we can humbly submit to God, because He's made very clearly known who He is and who we are and what we are to do.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

sorry I didn't pose any questions and I wanted to, hit post too fast! ahhh anyways...

Do you think God is objective, or is He whatever we want Him to be?

Do you think debating theological points are healthy and good for the church, or not?

Do you think the Bible tells us enough to know as much as we need to know about God on this earth?

1. "God is" = an objective statement. One's experience is subjective, but objective for them. Who God is, is also objective. He is who he is, and we cannot change that.

2. As long as one's priorities are straight, yes. In life, the two main rules are "Love God and Love neighbor".. the rest should be taken with that in mind.

3. No. There will never be enough information when you want to know God. I'm not saying the bible's a lie, or that we need to search for God in other religions, ..more that we don't know a lot.

Again, I apologize for my short replies.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

To answer the actual question, or what I thought was the question: I believe God is the same (objective), but the way we look at Him changes (subjective), and that's just fine. I think that no one's really got Him all right yet because He's pretty much just too big to understand in a human life... I also believe because of how big God really is, and how unique humanity can be, the way we relate to God can be extremely different. So the relationship with God is completely subjective and unique.

I've seen this attitude so prevelant lately... So many people seem to think God is subjective and their views on Him can be whatever they want because since nobody knows the perfect truth, everything can be whatever they want it to be. I feel like this is a really bad perversion of our view of God. Many people pick and choose what they want to believe in the OT/NT, and if something doesn't line up with their feelings, they just say that verse/passage/book isn't true, or an error, or whatever.

The simple fact is, if the God of the Bible is real, He is objective. He doesn't change to be whatever every individual wants Him to be because He was not made for us, we were made for Him. When we try to twist His image to whatever we want it to be, we are making ourselves gods and tarnishing His glorious image.

I know, I'm already waiting for the responses of "but you can't know the perfect truth, who are you to say that you do?" The thing is, I'm not claiming I know everything. I know I don't. I don't think any man will ever know the complete 100% truth about every aspect of God while in this world. But we can clearly see God's attributes and understand how to obtain salvation and how to live according to His standards by His word. Does the average joe need to know more than that? Intense theologic debates, does it help the body of Christ? I don't think there's a situation where it does, it just causes dissention and separation. Why can't we stop nitpicking little things and just embrace each other in joy, worshipping and praising God for what we know about Him and what He has done for us?

If I were to pick my way through the Bible and say that I will only believe bits and pieces of it, I'd feel horrible. I can't do that to God. He gave us that book so we could understand Him and it bothers me to see people try to "understand Him" by filling in the blanks with their understanding and feelings instead of consulting the Bible. Our views may be subjective, but our God is objective. He is truth, whether we want to accept it (and Him) or not.

Sorry if this sounds like an angry rant, but I just don't like seeing the body of Christ so badly divided in this day and age, and seeing other religions/non-religions creeping in and impacting Christianity and our view of God.

So... you're not really asking the title question, you just wanted us to all see things your way?

Just checking

 

[kevlite2020]

To answer the actual question, or what I thought was the question: I believe God is the same (objective), but the way we look at Him changes (subjective), and that's just fine. I think that no one's really got Him all right yet because He's pretty much just too big to understand in a human life... I also believe because of how big God really is, and how unique humanity can be, the way we relate to God can be extremely different. So the relationship with God is completely subjective and unique.

I do agree that each individual's relationship with God is subjective, in other words, nobody can tell me what I've experienced with God and vise-versa. But who God is, I do think that's subjective. So if someone tells me they murdered someone because God told them to, I would feel comfortable in objectively saying no He didn't, because of who He is. But if someone told me that say they prayed in an odd way and they felt moved, I can't knock them or call them wrong.

So... you're not really asking the title question, you just wanted us to all see things your way?

Just checking

If you check the second post in this thread, I asked some questions, I just forgot to ask it in my OP sorry...

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

So if someone tells me they murdered someone because God told them to, I would feel comfortable in objectively saying no He didn't

I feel that probably means the person has a mental health condition, which is a bit different

If you check the second post in this thread, I asked some questions, I just forgot to ask it in my OP sorry...

Done, sorry I'm big on a blind posts

Do you think God is objective, or is He whatever we want Him to be?

Do you think debating theological points are healthy and good for the church, or not?

Do you think the Bible tells us enough to know as much as we need to know about God on this earth?

1) Well I kinda already answered that in my first post.

2) I think knowledge is an ongoing process and that discussion and dialogue brings us closer to digging up what's valuable for our spiritual lives...

3) No.

 

[kevlite2020]

It's interesting to me that it seems a majority views debate about God as a good, healthy, productive thing, and that we don't know enough about God just from the Bible. I am very strongly on the other side of that. I don't think we need to or aught to debate and fight over theological points, and I do think we can know everything we need about God straight from the Bible. I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to that?

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

It's interesting to me that it seems a majority views debate about God as a good, healthy, productive thing, and that we don't know enough about God just from the Bible. I am very strongly on the other side of that. I don't think we need to or aught to debate and fight over theological points, and I do think we can know everything we need about God straight from the Bible. I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to that?

No of course you aren't, I don't know what would ever make you think you were in the minority. You probably have thousands of people on this forum alone who agree directly with you.

If you want my real perspective, and I can't imagine you would ask a thread and not want real answers like some people do... I'll give it to you in as much honesty as I can, but I won't debate it because of where we are (I don't mean the Single's forum.. I mean CF in general). So here it is:

The church has convoluted the meaning of God since about the 3rd or 4th century, burying it's true roots in the sands of time with desperation and, frankly, brutality of all shades and forms. My point is... some people (the "Church" included, but it is not limited to Christianity by far!) have used religion over the years to control people into thinking what they want them to believe. It's a socio-political institution these days instead of a faith-based one. In some respects... it has lost sight of God itself. And I guess that's good enough for some people, but definitely not me.

I think that's bad, and I think the Bible is down right corrupt and incomplete. Therefor, me personally? I just go straight to God, and as a result I vary from the population... but I don't care since I'm going straight to the source and everyone else is taking the long way. *shrugs*

Hope that helps you see where I come from. I rarely give my viewpoint here but ... I guess you seem to have asked the right question

 

[trentlogain2]

nevermind. i hate when people butt in when im talking so i'll wait.

 

[kevlite2020]

No of course you aren't, I don't know what would ever make you think you were in the minority. You probably have thousands of people on this forum alone who agree directly with you.

If you want my real perspective, and I can't imagine you would ask a thread and not want real answers like some people do... I'll give it to you in as much honesty as I can, but I won't debate it because of where we are (I don't mean the Single's forum.. I mean CF in general). So here it is:

The church has convoluted the meaning of God since about the 3rd or 4th century, burying it's true roots in the sands of time with desperation and, frankly, brutality of all shades and forms. My point is... some people (the "Church" included, but it is not limited to Christianity by far!) have used religion over the years to control people into thinking what they want them to believe. It's a socio-political institution these days instead of a faith-based one. In some respects... it has lost sight of God itself. And I guess that's good enough for some people, but definitely not me.

I think that's bad, and I think the Bible is down right corrupt and incomplete. Therefor, me personally? I just go straight to God, and as a result I vary from the population... but I don't care since I'm going straight to the source and everyone else is taking the long way. *shrugs*

Hope that helps you see where I come from. I rarely give my viewpoint here but ... I guess you seem to have asked the right question

Well it's possible I'm in the minority because I've seen so many people (not just here, but in RL as well often) say that they believe in Jesus but they don't think the OT is real, or they think God is real except for a couple things about God, etc. It seems to be a common thought nowadays.

Anyway, so what you're saying is that you feel the Bible has been corrupted and that church teachings are a result of corruption, and due to that you don't put trust in either of those things? That's how my dad feels as well...

I just think, if we have a God loving enough to send His only Son in this world to save us, I think He's loving (and powerful) enough to preserve His word well enough that He can still bring us to Him at this day and age. I agree that church corruption has happened, but I'll tell ya, just about any Bible version can lead you to a good, healthy relationship with Jesus. I agree that churches have become corrupt and some won't help at all in getting a relationship with God, but I think the Bible is still accurately preserved so that we can still know God, because that is His work.

 

[trentlogain2]

okay now then. LOL

if the Bible is corrupt then how did you get saved, BA?

 

[kevlite2020]

okay now then. LOL

if the Bible is corrupt then how did you get saved, BA?

Please keep this thread on topic. No offense, but this thread isn't about BA's salvation and I don't want her to feel pressured to answer things about her personal life here. Thanks.