one verse for the trinity?

[steve4.truth]

No Scripture proof for what? -persons in the single kinds? Yes there is, and I gave it.
There are persons in Adam and there are persons in YHWH. In Adam, there are two persons, in the beginning, in Genesis 1; and in Genesis 5:2, the Scripture says "male and female made He them and called their name "Adam".
The male and female, called "Adam" =two persons in Adam; and Adam multiplied the created seed in the loins of the firstborn Adam, as Genesis tells us, and filled the face of the earth with multiplied Adam persons.
YHWH Elohym, who created the single kinds as multiplicities, exists in a multiplicity of exactly three Persons and is unchanging and not multiplying.

In Genesis 1, there are persons in the uncreated YHWH Elohym who speak with each other -"Let Us" and who made Adam in their own, single, one/echad image/similitude.
In Romans 5:14 that image which Adam is made in is of Jesus Christ who was to come, and who is come in flesh of second Man creation, as the second Adam, the Redeemer/Kinsman of Adam, and who is YHWH the Word, come in that flesh.

"Let Us" make Adam in our [single] similitude/image, said YHWH Elohym. YHWH is revealed as a multiplicity from Genesis 1, and revealed as three Persons throughout the Word, with "One", single/echad image, and Adam was made in that image, the image of God the Word, who is come in flesh.

sorry, I should have clarified. Your discussion of Adam is well supported by the scriptures you posted. But I don't see how that corresponds to YHWH. If you're counting on the fact that YHWH is used in the plural , how would you answer the following scriptures where other singular gods were referred to as plural also.
1 Sam. 5:7 "And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us; for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god." 'elohiym

1 Kings 11:5 "For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess 'elohiym of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites."

Dan. 1:26 "And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god." 'elohiym

Its called the "plural of majesty". As seen by these verses, this plural use of 'elohiym refers to a singular god. This is also used of YHWH.

"in our image" refers to YHWH and Jesus, by whom all things were created. We have the personality and free will that YHWH and Jesus both have. That does not make them one person any more than Adam and Eve were one person.

 

[steve4.truth]

Der Alters long list of verses serves no purpose other than to intimidate (something he does professionally) Those verses only list 3 persons. The question under discussion is whether there are any verses that say that all 3 are actually 1 and all "God".
Furthermore, his comments are accusatory, derogatory and meant to inflame quarrels. I will not comment because 2 Tim. 2:24 says "And the Lord's servant* must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,"

 

[yeshuasavedme]

sorry, I should have clarified. Your discussion of Adam is well supported by the scriptures you posted. But I don't see how that corresponds to YHWH. If you're counting on the fact that YHWH is used in the plural , how would you answer the following scriptures where other singular gods were referred to as plural also.
1 Sam. 5:7 "And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us; for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god." 'elohiym

1 Kings 11:5 "For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess 'elohiym of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites."

Dan. 1:26 "And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god." 'elohiym

Its called the "plural of majesty". As seen by these verses, this plural use of 'elohiym refers to a singular god. This is also used of YHWH.

"in our image" refers to YHWH and Jesus, by whom all things were created. We have the personality and free will that YHWH and Jesus both have. That does not make them one person any more than Adam and Eve were one person.

The word YHWH is no more plural in usage than Adam is, in the original Bible language. In Deut 6:4, the highlighted/underlined words state:

Hear , O Israel: YHWH our elohym is echad YHWH:
Deu 6:4 ¶ Deuteronomy 6 - STR - with Study Resources - Study Desk

The Scripture is plain that there are multiple persons in YHWH and in Adam. To establish how many persons there are in YHWH one just reads the Scriptures for that information. There is the unseen YHWH Person of the Father; the seen YHWH Person of the Word, and the unseen but present and active YHWH Person of the Holy Spirit. In Scripture the YHWH Person who is the Word is the One who is ever seen, and who is now come in flesh as the second creation Man.


To grasp the Scriptures showing that Adam is the single name of the first created human being kind is a beginning of biblical understanding that YHWH is the single name of the uncreated YHWH kind.
Scripturally speaking, YHWH, the Elohym of Israel, is One YHWH kind/Spirit/Being, existing in a multiplicity of persons in the same manner as Adam, the human being, is one Adam kind/spirit/being existing in a multiplicity of persons. YHWH does not multiply His persons, however, but Adam is multiplied and multiplying his persons, and will continue to do so until Adam ceases to exist as a spirit, before the face of YHWH.
Since YHWH made us to understand by His Word that He is a multiple of Persons but one only YHWH, there is no reason to invent a doctrine of "plural of majesties" to explain how YHWH persons can council together, as in "Let us make Adam in our image, after our likeness".

The Scriptures are also plain that Adam is made in the bodily image of YHWH in the Person of the Word. "The body is for the LORD" and it is for the body that Jesus came to die in His own New Man flesh, to ransom our bodies back for Himself, so that the departed Glory of the unseen YHWH can again dwell in them.
He cleanses our souls by the blood of Atonement, and gives us a remnant of His own Living Spirit to regenerate us new, and promises to regenerate our bodies new, also. That is what the redemption is about, for the whole spirit, soul and body of each individual Adam person.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The bodily regeneration is called the adoption of the body, also called second birth of the body in that the elements of the created body of dust which is made in His own image will be dissolved and reformed, which is a metamorphosis that is a complete transformation of it at the resurrection and/or change of the body of the redeemed, which will happen at the first trumpet call for the saints to assemble before Him in the assemblies of the sons of God in the heavenlies, which is coming -and which the Living Oracles committed only to the namesake people of the New Man name teach us about and which Jesus taught us to watch and pray, so as to be called to that assembly.

There is also the singular word, "el", used for "god", and the Most High El is YHWH seen, who is "YHWH the Word".
of the Most High God/el. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H410&t=KJV
.

 

[steve4.truth]

you didn't answer my question about the references to Baal and Asherah in the plural.

 

[Gareth]

If anyone wants source information that may prove useful to see just how `Christian` Constantine actually was, the Catholic Encyclopeadia Online will prove most helpful. As a taster, it should be noted that when marching into battle against the Persians in 337, Constantine fell ill and died shortly after receiving baptism. So up to that point, he was not a Christian (as we would understand what it means to be a Christian), but rather still followed the Pagan gods of his fathers. Actions always speak louder than words. In addition, there was no proof given that Constantine was an Arian follower as the majority of the Bishops present at Nicea were anti-arian and he went along with that and the other decisions they made that day, which is also in the Catholic Encyclopeadia Online.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

you didn't answer my question about the references to Baal and Asherah in the plural.

The Bible states that there were many of them, not just one of them, so Elohym is proper to refer to them -there are many "Elohym", false and true [the created angels are elohym, and not worshiped unless they are fallen, and seek worship].
Jdg 2:11 Then the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served the Baals/baalim;


There is only One YHWH Spirit, as Deut 6 states, and He exists in three persons in the Scriptures, just as the one Adam spirit exists in multiplied billions and billions and so on, of persons. That is why Jesus said to Philip; He who has seen Me has seen the Father; and that is why tghe Bible states that "all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus'. In the very same manner, when you have seen me or you, you have seed the Adamhead, for all the fullness of the Adamhead dwells in me and in you.

The "head" of anything is the source of it, from which it comes. The "Head" of Jesus Christ is the Everlasting Spirit, YHWH; but the "head" of you and me is the created spirit, Adam.

There were many baals -baalim, and ashteroths/ishtars, and so on, but there is only One YHWH, as to kind, and only one Adam, as to kind.

 

[Der Alte]

Here are eleven passages, from the list of 86, below, that are unique. Each passage shows Father, Son, and Holy Spirit having a different relationship, effect, role, etc., with respect to believers. [ . . . ]

(1.) 2 Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

(2.) Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

(3.) Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

(4.) 1 Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, [Repeated three times, cf. 2 Th 2.13, Ro 15:16] unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: [Repeated twice, cf. Heb 9.14]Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

(5.) Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God,.

(6.) Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost,.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call,.

(7.) Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ, to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost,.

(8.) Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse,, and he, that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him, shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope, fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost,.

(9.) Heb 9.14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit, offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!,

(10.) 2 Thess 2.13 But we ought always to thank God, for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God, chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and through belief in the truth.
14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ,.

(11.) I Cor 12.3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.,
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.,
6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God, works all of them in all men.​

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
[ . . . ]

Der Alters long list of verses serves no purpose other than to intimidate (something he does professionally) Those verses only list 3 persons. The question under discussion is whether there are any verses that say that all 3 are actually 1 and all "God".
Furthermore, his comments are accusatory, derogatory and meant to inflame quarrels.[ . . . ]

Please read the introduction again. There is nothing which could be called, "accusatory, derogatory and meant to inflame quarrels, etc."

Here are eleven passages, from the list of 86, below, that are unique. Each passage shows Father, Son, and Holy Spirit having a different relationship, effect, role, etc., with respect to believers.

For example, #2, Tit 3:4-6 and #4, 1 Pe 1:2 salvation and election are dependent on all three father, son, and holy spirit

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

1 Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.​

And here are verses which address or refer to the father, the son, and the holy spirit as God.

1. There is one God! The Father is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Father is not the Son or the Spirit. Numerous vss. e.g., John 6:27, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Eph 6:23, Philippians 2:11, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:17, et. al.

2. There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.

[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[3] Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he [God] hath purchased with his own blood.

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.​

3. There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17.

 

[Der Alte]

If anyone wants source information that may prove useful to see just how `Christian` Constantine actually was, the Catholic Encyclopeadia Online will prove most helpful. As a taster, it should be noted that when marching into battle against the Persians in 337, Constantine fell ill and died shortly after receiving baptism. So up to that point, he was not a Christian (as we would understand what it means to be a Christian), but rather still followed the Pagan gods of his fathers.

Were you to read the histories written by Eusebius, Lactantius, etc. Constantine delayed baptism because he wanted to be baptized in the Jordan as Jesus was but when he became sick and realized he would not be able to go to Israel he consented to be baptized. And the bishop who baptized him was an Arian.

When at last he felt the approach of death he received baptism, declaring to the bishops who had assembled around him that, after the example of Christ, he had desired to receive the saving seal in the Jordan, but that God had ordained otherwise, and he would no longer delay baptism. Laying aside the purple, the emperor, in the white robe of a neophyte, peacefully and almost joyfully awaited the end.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Constantine the Great​

Actions always speak louder than words. In addition, there was no proof given that Constantine was an Arian follower as the majority of the Bishops present at Nicea were anti-arian and he went along with that and the other decisions they made that day, which is also in the Catholic Encyclopeadia Online.

You seem to be changing your story here. Have you not stated the JW position in the past that Constantine was a pagan, presided over the council, and forced a pagan Trinity on the church? Now you are saying that the council made the decisions and Constantine went along.

After the Council of Nicæa, he conversed more and more frequently and intimately with the bishops. his interest in Christianity grew with the years; but, as was to have been foreseen, he was sure to be led astray, for the needle lacked in the compass. He was more and more drawn over to the side of the Arians, and it was an Arian bishop who baptized him.

earlychurch.org.uk/Constantine

Constantine himself was torn between both the Arian and Trinitarian camps. As Constantine, after the Nicene council and against its conclusions, eventually recalled Arius from exile and banished Athanasius of Alexandria to Trier. Constantine himself was baptised into Christianity just before his death in May 337 by his distant relative Arianian Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia. During Eusebius of Nicomedia's time in the Imperial court, the Eastern court and the major positions in the Eastern Church were held by Arians or Arian sympathizers.

reddit.com/r/Christianity

The scandalous "majority" vote of the Nicene Council did not really settle anything and controversy continued unabated. Within a few years the Arians had regained so much ground that Constantine found it politically expedient to change sides and Arianism was restored to favor. (This writer suspects that this sudden reversal also made for peace at home, between Constantine and his Arian wife).

bibletopics.com

Eusebius of Nicomedia remained in exile in Gaul until 328, when (according to Epiphanius) he pretended to have repented, made a confession of faith, and Constantine allowed him to return. After he returned from the exile, Eusebius began to cultivate a friendship with Constantine’s sister, Constantia. Through this friendship he began to influence Constantine. By continually pointing out the faults of the Homo’ousian leaders (the anti-Arians) he caused Constantine to change his beliefs and become pro-Arian. Consequently, Constantine deposed Athanasius at a synod in Tyre in 335 and brought back Arius from exile and reinstated him in a synod at Jerusalem in 335. Epiphanius avoided mentioning in his writings that towards the end of his life Constantine became pro-Arian. Inadvertently, Photius implied that Constantine favored the Arians: “When Constantine the Great was nearing the end of his life, he had the testament of his last wishes sealed up, and handed to Eutocius, a man who bore in his breast the poison of the Arian heresy.”

prudentialpublishing.info/

For decades after Nicea, the power of the Roman state was used against supporters of the creed adopted by the council. Constantine and his successors repeatedly intervened on the side of the Arian heretics, the deniers of Christ’s divinity.

americamagazine.org​

 

[yeshuasavedme]

3. There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17.

So true. And the Word shows that there are persons in YHWH who are each called God, just like the Word shows that there are persons in Adam, who are each called Adam -Genesis 5:2, two persons, one Adam.
Those who deny that there are separate Persons in YHWH, as seen from Genesis through Revelation and in the writings of Enoch, really do need to understand that they are, themselves, just persons in Adam, and that the persons is Adam are not each other just like the Persons in YHWH are not each other.

 

[2ducklow]

So true. And the Word shows that there are persons in YHWH who are each called God, just like the Word shows that there are persons in Adam, who are each called Adam -Genesis 5:2, two persons, one Adam.
Those who deny that there are separate Persons in YHWH, as seen from Genesis through Revelation and in the writings of Enoch, really do need to understand that they are, themselves, just persons in Adam, and that the persons is Adam are not each other just like the Persons in YHWH are not each other.

Rotherham) Genesis 5:2 Male and female, created he them,--and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day they were created.

my wife and I both got the same last name, she liked mine so much she changed her's to mine.
Adam Adam, and Eve Adam. Or,

Mr. and Mrs. Adam
PO Box 1
Garden of Eden. 00001

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Rotherham) Genesis 5:2 Male and female, created he them,--and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day they were created.

my wife and I both got the same last name, she liked mine so much she changed her's to mine.
Adam Adam, and Eve Adam. Or,

Mr. and Mrs. Adam
PO Box 1
Garden of Eden. 00001

Adam is not the last name of the human race of the first creation. It is "the" name of the human race of sons of God of the first creation.
Your wife is an ishyah Adam person. You are an ish Adam person.
The head of the Adam race, the ish Adam person, was put into a deep sleep and a rib was taken from his side from which YHWH Elohym built an ishyah Adam person. There are two persons in the one Adam spirit, in Genesis, at the beginning of the creation of human beings, and they share the same one Adam spirit, as Malachi 2:15 states. Each human being born in Adam has a remnant of the same Adam spirit, which is what makes us Adam, inherently.

Jesus Christ is the Word YHWH Person, and He is come in flesh of second human being creation, and His human race name of the second creation is not Adam, but Israel, as Isaiah 49 states. He gave His own New Man name as a sign of the adoption to come, to Jacob and his seed. That is why He ever after calls Israel; "My people, called by My name...", and that is why the ancient Jews prayed prayers that are written which state to YHWH; You invoked your name over us", as to the nation of Israel having the name of YHWH and being called by that name, "Israel".
Now there is one Israel race, and the Firstborn of that race of human being sons of God is YHWH the Word come in that flesh of Firstborn Son of the human being kind, and He adopts whoever comes to Him into His own Living spirit and then, at the regeneration and or change of the bodies of the living Saints, He gives them the adoption body, also, and at that time, they are no more called Adam or son of Adam, but they will be the New Man, and His sons.

Persons in the single kinds is totally Bible doctrine, as to YHWH Kind and Adamkind and Israelkind.

 

[steve4.truth]

The Bible states that there were many of them, not just one of them, so Elohym is proper to refer to them -there are many "Elohym", false and true [the created angels are elohym, and not worshiped unless they are fallen, and seek worship].
Jdg 2:11 Then the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served the Baals/baalim;


There is only One YHWH Spirit, as Deut 6 states, and He exists in three persons in the Scriptures, just as the one Adam spirit exists in multiplied billions and billions and so on, of persons. That is why Jesus said to Philip; He who has seen Me has seen the Father; and that is why tghe Bible states that "all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus'. In the very same manner, when you have seen me or you, you have seed the Adamhead, for all the fullness of the Adamhead dwells in me and in you.

The "head" of anything is the source of it, from which it comes. The "Head" of Jesus Christ is the Everlasting Spirit, YHWH; but the "head" of you and me is the created spirit, Adam.

There were many baals -baalim, and ashteroths/ishtars, and so on, but there is only One YHWH, as to kind, and only one Adam, as to kind.

You are correct that there were many baals, but in those verses, only one was referred to by the plural.

 

[steve4.truth]

So true. And the Word shows that there are persons in YHWH who are each called God, just like the Word shows that there are persons in Adam, who are each called Adam -Genesis 5:2, two persons, one Adam.
Those who deny that there are separate Persons in YHWH, as seen from Genesis through Revelation and in the writings of Enoch, really do need to understand that they are, themselves, just persons in Adam, and that the persons is Adam are not each other just like the Persons in YHWH are not each other.

This whole Adam theory doesn't make sense. Adam and Eve were 2 separate people. You and I are separate people. Yes, we come from Adam and are human "kind", but that doesn't make us of "one essence". Trinity claims that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are one person. To say that because they are all from divine "kind" doesn't make them one person any more than you and I are one person because we are both human "kind". This is faulty reasoning.

 

[steve4.truth]

There is still no verse that teaches the trinity. The verses that mention all three in one verse don't say that they are one person. If Tom Dick and Harry are mentioned in the same sentence, are they all one person? And the verses that refer to all three as "God" don't make them a trinity because angels and human judges and even Satan and Baals are called "God". Just because someone is referred to as God (divine), doesn't automatically make them part of a trinity. If it did, Satan is part of the trinity.

 

[Der Alte]

There is still no verse that teaches the trinity. The verses that mention all three in one verse don't say that they are one person. If Tom Dick and Harry are mentioned in the same sentence, are they all one person? And the verses that refer to all three as "God" don't make them a trinity because angels and human judges and even Satan and Baals are called "God". Just because someone is referred to as God (divine), doesn't automatically make them part of a trinity. If it did, Satan is part of the trinity.

You evidently did not even read the 122+ vss. I posted. For example, I cited two passages which state that salvation is dependent on all three father, son, and holy spirit, Titus 3:4, and 1 Pet 1:2.

In the 1-2 proof texts which supposedly call angels and judges "elohim" how many times does scripture say that salvation is dependent on an angel or a judge? Answer: 0! How many times is an angel or judge said to comfort, guide, lead, inspire, convict, etc? Answer: 0!

Here again are verses which call or refer to the son and the holy spirit as God. If you can show verses which show that angels and judges have all the characteristics of God, that the son and the holy spirit have, then you might begin to have a some hint of an argument.
1. There is one God! The Father is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Father is not the Son or the Spirit. Numerous vss. e.g., John 6:27, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Eph 6:23, Philippians 2:11, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:17, et. al.

2. There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.

[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[3] Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he [God] hath purchased with his own blood.

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.​

3. There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17.

There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​

This passage, Act 5:3-4, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.​

This passage Act 28:25-27, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]​

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11[/b] So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]​

This passage identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,​

 

[steve4.truth]

you're right, I didn't even read those verses. been there, done that. The idea is this: If a verse says that Jesus or the holy spirit did or does something that the Father does, that makes them the same person. Very circular. If I "save" my kid from the spider crawling across the floor, does that make me God? If I "comfort" "lead" or "guide" my child, does that make me God? Moses "guided" the Israelites. David "lead" the nation of Israel. Paul "comforted" the Corinthians. Peter "convicted" the Israelites at Pentecost. Besides, even if the fact that Jesus and the holy spirit did supernatural and divine things (big surprise!) did somehow prove that they were the same person as the Father, that would still be only secondary evidence. SHOW ME EVEN ONE VERSE THAT OUTRIGHT TEACHES THE TRINITY!!!! none! Zero! answer:0! A teaching that important doesn't rely on secondary and implied evidence.

 

[Der Alte]

You're right, I didn't even read those verses. been there, done that. The idea is this: If a verse says that Jesus or the holy spirit did or does something that the Father does, that makes them the same person.

You are partly correct, it does NOT make them the same person, but it does make them the same God!

Very circular. If I "save" my kid from the spider crawling across the floor, does that make me God? If I "comfort" "lead" or "guide" my child, does that make me God? Moses "guided" the Israelites. David "lead" the nation of Israel. Paul "comforted" the Corinthians. Peter "convicted" the Israelites at Pentecost.

Irrelevant diversion. Neither you, David, Paul, or Peter have ever been called God. Ignoring scriptural truths and posting your assumptions does NOT make your argument any better.

Besides, even if the fact that Jesus and the holy spirit did supernatural and divine things (big surprise!) did somehow prove that they were the same person as the Father, that would still be only secondary evidence.

Once again, Christianity does not say that the son and the holy spirit is the same person as the father. Since you have not read anything I posted nothing you say about the passages is relevant.

SHOW ME EVEN ONE VERSE THAT OUTRIGHT TEACHES THE TRINITY!!!! none! Zero! answer:0! A teaching that important doesn't rely on secondary and implied evidence.

There is nothing secondary or implied about anything I posted. I have posted scripture which clearly shows that father, son, and holy spirit are God and that each have a distinct mind and self. OBTW can you show me any verse which states there is a Bible?

And OBTW since you do not extend me the courtesy of reading and addressing my posts. I will simply posts my arguments without reference to anything you say. I too bintheredunthatgotthetshirtdontfit.

 

[Christos Anesti]

Challenge: there is not one verse in the Bible that teaches the trinity--3 persons, all 3 God, actually one person.

Thats not what the Trinity is to begin with though. It's not "three people who are actually one person".

 

[steve4.truth]

since the trinity is not defined in the Bible (HINT, HINT), it depends on your version of that definition.

 

[Der Alte]

since the trinity is not defined in the Bible (HINT, HINT), it depends on your version of that definition.

Hint! Hint! The word "Trinity" or "Triunity" is simply a shorthand way of saying that which I have documented with the 220+ vss. I posted above. There is only one God. The father is God but he is not the son or the holy spirit. The son is God but he is not the father or the holy spirit.The holy spirit is God but he is not the son or the father. There is only one God.