May the Holy Spirit continue to speak to him and may the Lord win this wrestling in the night that he is going through.
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Ian McKellen Admits to Ripping Pages from The Bible
- Thread starter suzybeezy
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- Mar 23, 2004
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well ok, he has a right to express whatever feelings or motivation that drove him to such a thing....but seriously, it's oddly strange and just foolish...
He COULD request to have any Bibles removed from any of his rooms...he KNOWS they're gonna be there.....
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Catherineanne
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First of all, to get a sense of proportion on this one, it is not blasphemy to tear pages out of a Bible. It is, however, vandalism, if the Bible in question is not your own personal property, as in this case.
The question then is, does Mr McKellan have the right to vandalise a book which is offered by whatever organisation to whoever occupies that hotel room? It all depends what is intended by the offering. If the organisation intends the person who finds that Bible to use it as they wish; to read or not as they want, and even to take the Bible home if they feel the need to do so, then the vandalism is fine; the Bible is a free gift, and ownership is offered to anyone who wants it, including any passing vandals.
If, however, the Bible is along the lines of the television, towels etc and is there for the use of hotel patrons while they are in the room, but not to be removed when they leave, then Mr McKellan would be best advised keeping his temper under control, and not tearing out any more pages, however personally offensive he might happen to find them.
I think most of us understand the hotel Bible to be the latter; there for the use of hotel patrons, and to be left for other patrons. In which case, although I do not agree with the nonsense in Leviticus, I also do not think it helps anyone to go around commiting what is, in effect, a criminal act, in order to make some kind of protest about it. Mr McKellan has other avenues of protest open to him, and has never been afraid of speaking his mind; let him carry on doing that, and leave the Bibles alone.
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I don´t seem to understand how you get from the fact that someone is rebelling against an ideology to the conclusion that he "knows deep in his heart" that this ideology is true.
I suspect that if you´d find "Mein Kampf" on the bedside table of every hotel room there would be plenty of people not only ripping out pages but rebel even more vehemently.
I fail to see how such a rebellion against an ideology someone strongly is opposed to suggests that he "knows deep in his heart" that it is true.
The most self-suggesting conclusion is that he simply disagrees strongly with it.
This is not to say that I find this reaction particularly reasonable. You don´t get rid of stupid or even dangerous ideas by ripping stupid parts out of books.
You don´t convince people that an idea is stupid or dangerous by trying to oppress it. Quite the contrary: you make it particularly interesting and more virulent, you give it weight that it doesn´t deserve, and you are likely to cause persecution fantasies and victim mentality among the followers of the idea.
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Catherineanne
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Nobody has the right to cause criminal damage in a hotel room, not even of a book; any book. If it does not belong to you, you do not have the right to tear pages out.
I am not sure why you think that kind of behaviour is something to defend, to be honest. Mr McKellen is entitled to his opinions, but not to act them out in vandalism. All he has to do is to say when he books the room, 'please remove the Bible, as I find some of the content offensive'. If it is still there when he checks in, he can hand it to a member of staff, and ask them to take it away.
I really don't see why he has to resort to some kind of tantrum, rather than a more adult response.
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Skaloop
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Aren't Gideon Bibles, the ones generally found in hotel rooms, free for the taking? In which case it would not be criminal damage to a hotel room, it would be damage to one's own property.
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Hey, let's see what the Amazing Grace Baptist Church is up to...
Great Preaching and Singing
We are burning Satan's bibles like the NIV, RSV, NKJV, TLB, NASB, ESV, NEV, NRSV, ASV, NWT, Good News for Modern Man, The Evidence Bible, The Message Bible, The Green Bible, and ect. These are perversions of God's Word the King James Bible.
Great Preaching and Singing
We are burning Satan's bibles like the NIV, RSV, NKJV, TLB, NASB, ESV, NEV, NRSV, ASV, NWT, Good News for Modern Man, The Evidence Bible, The Message Bible, The Green Bible, and ect. These are perversions of God's Word the King James Bible.
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I basically agree with this completely. I have no idea why the first assumption was that he ripped it out because he knew it to be true - surely he is ripping it out because he believes it to be false (considering he stated that his other option was just to throw the whole book out), and that this particular section he finds particularly false.
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- Mar 23, 2004
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revanneosl
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I have occasionally considered taking a nice fat Sharpie marker to I Corinthians 14: 34-35, and being a woman called by God to preach was never, in my lifetime, a crime punishable by up to a 2 year term in prison, as being a homosexual was, in Britain, up until Mr. McKellen's 28th year.
When a particular biblical passage has been used as a rationalization for the oppression, imprisonment and murder of countless people down through the years, I don't think that it should come as a surprise to anybody when people have reactions that might be characterized as "over-the-top".
When a particular biblical passage has been used as a rationalization for the oppression, imprisonment and murder of countless people down through the years, I don't think that it should come as a surprise to anybody when people have reactions that might be characterized as "over-the-top".
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He comes from a strong Christian environment. His father was a lay preacher and both her grandfathers were preachers. He has spoken about his strong Christian upbringing. I am pretty sure he understands what he's doing and what it means.
He is mistaken if by ripping the pages out of GOD'S word he thinks it changes it. GOD'S word is forever. Ripping them out doesn't make them any less true.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
I could careless what his preference is; it is not my place to judge as we are all sinners. I just wish that he, and others, who feel so strongly on this issue could also learn to respect others.
Christian's are just as guilty of sinning. The only difference is we have recognized the existence of sin in our lives and have asked for forgiveness. We will continue to sin. We are human. We will fall short but we will try in His name to do what is best and when we fall short, we will again ask for forgiveness. All can do the same.
To deny that the sin exists doesn't erase it. To deny the existence of gravity doesn't allow us to fly. To rip out the page on homosexuality doesn't change what it says.
He is mistaken if by ripping the pages out of GOD'S word he thinks it changes it. GOD'S word is forever. Ripping them out doesn't make them any less true.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
I could careless what his preference is; it is not my place to judge as we are all sinners. I just wish that he, and others, who feel so strongly on this issue could also learn to respect others.
Christian's are just as guilty of sinning. The only difference is we have recognized the existence of sin in our lives and have asked for forgiveness. We will continue to sin. We are human. We will fall short but we will try in His name to do what is best and when we fall short, we will again ask for forgiveness. All can do the same.
To deny that the sin exists doesn't erase it. To deny the existence of gravity doesn't allow us to fly. To rip out the page on homosexuality doesn't change what it says.
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Catherineanne
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I think the evidence for this distinction would be found in whether he removes the defaced Bible afterwards. If he does then he could say in defence that he regards it as his own property, and therefore is entitled to do whatever he likes to it.
However, if he defaces it and then leaves it in the room, clearly he does NOT regard it as his own property, and he may then become liable to a charge of committing willful criminal damage.
I doubt if anyone would bother to prosecute him for this, but that does not mean that what he is doing is legal, because it isn't.
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Catherineanne
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However distasteful this behaviour might be, if the books they are burning are their own lawful property, then they are entitled to burn as many as they want, and much good may it do them.
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I don't know, ask him? Maybe he wanted to make a point to other people about the specific section he tore out?
I don't see how whether he left it or not makes a difference if it is a Gideon's bible - I can consent to leave my property wherever I like. If they Bible's are free to be taken, and it is in his hotel, he can claim ownership of the Bible and then do what he likes with it, which includes ripping pages out and then leaving it in the hotel room.
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