Harry Potter = Witchcraft?

[Qyöt27]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. So Harry Potter is witchcraft to me and not to you because you don't believe magic is possible? Wasn't it considered possible in Scripture?

No, movie magic, which is completely fictional and unrelated to what's described in Scripture, is fake and therefore subject to suspension of disbelief. I don't deny that certain things were considered possible in Scripture, and that there is the possibility of mystical or unexplained forces in this world, but I don't try to equate those things with words that have had new meanings added to them over time.

Sort of like the problems that arise when looking at the different translations of 1 Thessalonians 5:22 - the KJV reads "abstain from all appearance of evil", which many take as polemic against any sort of somber imagery or fashion (notably Goths, because the assumption is the color black = evil), when practically every other English translation has that verse as "avoid/abstain from all kinds of evil"; judging appearance is very very subjective, as the frightening architectural features of some cathedrals can attest. Was the use of appearance a mistranslation, or was it that the English language itself changed, and what that word meant in 1611 is different than what it means today (sort of how the word 'nice' once meant foolish, promiscuous, or flirtatious - those being the definitions of the word when used by Shakespeare and Milton).

But whether the magic works or not is not the issue. I'm not objecting because I see magic as in-line or out-of-question with the laws of physics, etc. but rather because the act (however successful) is listed specifically in scripture as idolatry and a vice of the flesh. I think you seem to be saying that, because magic is something which could never exist in reality, it's alright to fantasize about, whereas the example concerning adultery could exist and is therefore just a "what-if". But the behind-the-scene action of witchcraft is acquiring things ("power") on one's own.

What I'm saying is that if you set the story up in a world that is not the one we know (whether Middle Earth or an alternate dimension's version of New York City), then we can't necessarily take our laws of physics and accepted views of our world for granted in theirs, because those things may or may not apply there, and unless there's a specific religious undertone or conflict involved, the approval or disapproval aspect is unknown. In a Christian worldview, God has made our world to be subject to those laws of physics, but in a different world, maybe He would allow different laws to apply - this is the basic premise I think both Tolkien and Lewis worked from if they were intending to infuse such meaning into their stories (Lewis did more or less admit that Aslan was supposed to be viewed as an avatar of sorts of Jesus in a world that was separate from our own and bore little similarity to ours).

Star Wars, for example, never explained what "the Force" was in the original three movies - so for 20 years the assumption was that it was some form of all-encompassing mystical energy that worked for the premise of the story but otherwise couldn't be elaborated on. It wasn't until the prequels that the midi-chlorian explanation was shoehorned in there and people started ridiculing it. That, in essence, was trying to demystify fiction, and in that particular instance, fell into something (excessive technobabble, or more specifically, bio-babble, as midi-chlorians are supposed to be a microscopic symbiont) that Star Wars fans often accuse Star Trek of doing.

 

[Shabby]

If Harry Potter is witchcraft, then what is the Chronicles of Narnia & Lord of the Rings?

 

[Kol]

I'm saying it's not physical laws or the suspension of them that causes the sin, but that witchcraft has an innate value which is in conflict with God. I don't know how else to put it.

 

[Kol]

If Harry had the powers that he did in the movie, it could only come from God's allowance. No matter if he gained them by seeking after God or not, it would only mean that he has them by God's allowance. Anything and everything that happens, any power that one has is from God.

Only in the same way that Pharoah had the "power" to refuse God's will. Everything works for God. Everyone works for God. All actions take place because God allows them. But some of those actions and people are put on the path for hell. We we all serve God. Your only choice is whether you want to go to Heaven or Hell for doing so. Allowance is bound within these rules.

 

[Kol]

Maybe it would make more sense if I said that physical laws may be suspended, but "moral" laws never may be.

 

[KGirl]

Phil. 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
What does the Bible state as pure and good and what is not?

There were those that did not link certain practices in the same category. Hopefully these definitions can clear some of those things up..
occult-supernatural practices and techniques; "he is a student of the occult"
witchcraft-The practice of witches; magic, sorcery or the use supernatural powers to influence or predict events
magic-any art that invokes supernatural powers

2 Corinthians 10:5
5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

One thing that bothers me, is it appears that many people perfer what sounds good and fun over what scripture says. The Bible states certain things as evil, but does not say "with the exception of something that is entertaining to you and makes evil appear good".

To respond to:
"If Harry Potter is witchcraft, then what is the Chronicles of Narnia & Lord of the Rings?"
The Harry Potter and LOTR movies make witchcraft appear as normal/good. I personally do not watch those for that reason. The Chronicles of Narnia's witch is the enemy in the film and is shown as bad, as well as the movie being generally Christian themed. Though, with that being said, I still skip the witchcraft/chant scene in the second movie. I got a peaceful feeling with the water scene when it was a representation of God.
Though I would not blame someone if they chose not to watch it. It's simply my take on it.

 

[Shabby]

To respond to:
"If Harry Potter is witchcraft, then what is the Chronicles of Narnia & Lord of the Rings?"
The Harry Potter and LOTR movies make witchcraft appear as normal/good. I personally do not watch those for that reason. The Chronicles of Narnia's witch is the enemy in the film and is shown as bad, as well as the movie being generally Christian themed. Though, with that being said, I still skip the witchcraft/chant scene in the second movie. I got a peaceful feeling with the water scene when it was a representation of God.
Though I would not blame someone if they chose not to watch it. It's simply my take on it.

You know that Tolkien (LOTR) was one of the best Christian writers of the century? In fact, he and C.S. Lewis were quite close.

 

[KGirl]

Not going to argue that, I just go to God's word first over the writing's of any other man. Even one who may be Christian. I like to ask, "Does it line up with the word?" I won't throw stones at Tolkein though (metaphorically).

 

[Kol]

It is absolutely true that a very good Christian can be very much wrong in what he says or does. I also think it is unreasonable to assume that Lewis or Tolkien were perfect Christians with full knowledge of everything. Just because they mention witchcraft doesn't give us the right to accept witchcraft as "clean."

And again, I would say there's a difference in viewing a sin and taking pleasure in viewing a sin. I can watch one movie and see murder, cursing, or abuse, and there be no sin on my part whatsoever. But when I take pleasure and roll around in these things, something on my part is wrong. In the same way, watching witchcraft in the Narnia series is different than witchcraft in HP for the exact reason Qyot mentioned: in these stories, magic is simply a part of life. Their presence does not put me in danger. But when these things invade my heart, they become a problem. And witchcraft is just such one problem, as both the old and new testaments have made abundantly clear.

 

[ForHisGlory2009]

Hello,

Just wanted to say, that when I was younger I almost tried to read a Harry Potter book because it was the new thing it seemed so interesting. At the time I wasn't allowed to read the book so I didn't. But I do do some research about the book as well as listening to others who have read it and all.

There are spells in the Harry Potter Books. People say, oh christians can't have a spell casted upon them. But guess what a christian can cast a spell upon themselves. Not only when it comes to books but even with music.

Casting Spells, Wizards, Witches are all not of God. Harry Potter deal with Witchcraft. You can not always rely on what the authors say or even what companies catorgize a book. We have to do the research for ourselves. Believe me I was doing some research while reading what you wrote. I was blow away when looking at the list of spells that the book contains. There are alot. I went to one site that had pictures and the spells written out what they mean and do. Let me tell you I felt how demonic it was, it caused me to jump, turn my head, and just start praying.

 

[HannahBanana]

Hello,

Just wanted to say, that when I was younger I almost tried to read a Harry Potter book because it was the new thing it seemed so interesting. At the time I wasn't allowed to read the book so I didn't. But I do do some research about the book as well as listening to others who have read it and all.

There are spells in the Harry Potter Books. People say, oh christians can't have a spell casted upon them. But guess what a christian can cast a spell upon themselves. Not only when it comes to books but even with music.

Casting Spells, Wizards, Witches are all not of God. Harry Potter deal with Witchcraft. You can not always rely on what the authors say or even what companies catorgize a book. We have to do the research for ourselves. Believe me I was doing some research while reading what you wrote. I was blow away when looking at the list of spells that the book contains. There are alot. I went to one site that had pictures and the spells written out what they mean and do. Let me tell you I felt how demonic it was, it caused me to jump, turn my head, and just start praying.

The "spells" in the Harry Potter books aren't real spells at all. They're just Latin words, and unless you believe that Latin words are demonic, there's no reason for you to think that those so-called "spells" are demonic, either. Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about Wicca and Witchcraft, though.

 

[Kol]

The "spells" in the Harry Potter books aren't real spells at all. They're just Latin words, and unless you believe that Latin words are demonic, there's no reason for you to think that those so-called "spells" are demonic, either. Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about Wicca and Witchcraft, though.

And the Illuminati isn't a real world-domination group either, but cheering on their evil is still a problem. Lusting after and fantacising about another woman isn't real either. Still a sin. Your argument is wrong.

Am I to understand you know a lot about wicca and witchcraft, hanna?

 

[HannahBanana]

And the Illuminati isn't a real world-domination group either, but cheering on their evil is still a problem. Lusting after and fantacising about another woman isn't real either. Still a sin. Your argument is wrong.

Am I to understand you know a lot about wicca and witchcraft, hanna?

But the spells in Harry Potter aren't real witchcraft, so practicing them isn't anything like practicing real witchcraft. I mean, if a woman thought that thinking about a man's armpits was lustful (even though armpits have nothing to do with sex at all), that doesn't mean that that thought is actually lustful, just like practicing fake spells doesn't have anything at all to do with actual Wicca and/or Witchcraft.

And yes, I know a bit about Wicca and Witchcraft, since I have read up on it before. So what? At least I'm better educated on the topic than you are.

 

[WileyCoyote]

Harry Potter is of the devil. I know because as I was watching it, a sleep spell was cast on me. A little while later, I was sleeping.

Or maybe the movie just bored me. That could be it too.

 

[ForHisGlory2009]

And the Illuminati isn't a real world-domination group either, but cheering on their evil is still a problem. Lusting after and fantacising about another woman isn't real either. Still a sin. Your argument is wrong.

Am I to understand you know a lot about wicca and witchcraft, hanna?

I agree with you. Just joking with it, toying with it, trying to make up spells is demonic in itself. It is not a game and it is not something to be toyed with of course the latin language itself isn't demonic just like english lanugage isn't. But there are things you can say, write, study and do that can contain those languages that can be demonic but not the language itself no.


Now there are kids trying to create their own spells, work around some of the ones she has given, and becoming more interested in Wicca, that is not something to mess with, toy with or fool around with. It is real, real demoinc that is. Kids are opening themselves up for this type of stuff and don't even know it. I don't take it lightly or take it as a joke.

Also Hannah I replied to the PM you sent me containing the post and I have send more infomation to you.

 

[ForHisGlory2009]

People in the old testment were killed for being wizards, witches, and mediums. That's why we have to do our research, just look at harry what is he. A witch/wizard right. Why even mess with something like that, that people were killed for doing back in the day. It's not just a harmless show and harmless book.

 

[HannahBanana]

I agree with you. Just joking with it, toying with it, trying to make up spells is demonic in itself. It is not a game and it is not something to be toyed with of course the latin language itself isn't demonic just like english lanugage isn't. But there are things you can say, write, study and do that can contain those languages that can be demonic but not the language itself no.


Now there are kids trying to create their own spells, work around some of the ones she has given, and becoming more interested in Wicca, that is not something to mess with, toy with or fool around with. It is real, real demoinc that is. Kids are opening themselves up for this type of stuff and don't even know it. I don't take it lightly or take it as a joke.

Also Hannah I replied to the PM you sent me containing the post and I have send more infomation to you.

Weren't the Salem Witch Trials enough proof for you people that Witchcraft is in no way demonic? I mean, what is it going to take to convince you that Witches and Wiccans are not inherently bad people due to their faith, and that Witchcraft is not dangerous in the least to practice?

 

[HannahBanana]

Harry Potter is of the devil. I know because as I was watching it, a sleep spell was cast on me. A little while later, I was sleeping.

Or maybe the movie just bored me. That could be it too.

I do admit that the movies can be boring if you're not already interested in fantasy stories (or stories dealing with Britain). It takes a certain type of person to appreciate those movies, just like it takes a certain type of person to appreciate action films, war films, film noirs, or any other genre of movie.

 

[Kol]

But the spells in Harry Potter aren't real witchcraft, so practicing them isn't anything like practicing real witchcraft.

Under the Law it wouldn't be considered witchcraft. But we are under faith, which is much more stringent. For example, under the Law, you had to run a knife into somebody in order to be considered a murderer. Under the system of faith, all you have to do is call someone stupid, or a fool, etc. All you have to do is to hate them. In the same way, under the Law, only legit witchcraft would be considered a sin. Under faith, anything resembling a sin (such as witchcraft) is a sin.

I mean, if a woman thought that thinking about a man's armpits was lustful (even though armpits have nothing to do with sex at all), that doesn't mean that that thought is actually lustful...

Actually, it does. (Wish I had the time to develop this a bit more, but I have a greek test I have to study for!) Sin is not an action necessarily; it's in the heart.

just like practicing fake spells doesn't have anything at all to do with actual Wicca and/or Witchcraft.

It has the similitude of witchcraft.

And yes, I know a bit about Wicca and Witchcraft, since I have read up on it before. So what? At least I'm better educated on the topic than you are.

I somehow doubt it.

 

[Kol]

Weren't the Salem Witch Trials enough proof for you people that Witchcraft is in no way demonic? I mean, what is it going to take to convince you that Witches and Wiccans are not inherently bad people due to their faith, and that Witchcraft is not dangerous in the least to practice?

I don't see how the witch trials have anything to do with witchcraft. Are you saying that all the people killed through the ages under the name of witchcraft were actually witches? Wow.

All people are inherently bad. Isn't that a basic tenet of Christianity?

Edit: you must be messing with me here...