can the bible be infallibly interpreted?

[squint]

Honestly, "you lost me at hello . ."

I believe it was quite awhile b 4 that...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Gospels come to us from the Altar. The only ones who ever had them were the clergy.

The epistles, on the other hand, were in the hands of the laity.

Training on the Gospels and the homilies that go with them were and are the responsability of the clergy. It was this way for a reason. They were not to be allowed into the hands of the "idiots" (untrained) else they be misinterpreted.

Forgive me...

 

[racer]

I believe it was quite awhile b 4 that...

You're probably right . . . . :o

 

[Joachim]

The thing about the Bible is that it is a mystical book. You can't read it the way you read the sports scores. It's how God was able to encode all that ever was and will be in the text.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

If God is responsible for the creation of evil, how can an infallible man know that his interpretation, if received from a perfectly all-powerful God, is not a deception?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

If God is responsible for the creation of evil, how can an infallible man know that his interpretation, if received from a perfectly all-powerful God, is not a deception?

ESPECIALLY important for those (well, only one - the RCC) that insist that only ONE (itself) may authoritatively interpret Scripture and insist that one (self) is infallible/unaccountable in such.

In that case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to even ask if that one is wrong since that one declares that that one cannot be wrong and cannot be questioned: all must accept "with docility" whatever that one says. CCC 85, 87, etc.




.

 

[Albion]

If God is responsible for the creation of evil, how can an infallible man know that his interpretation, if received from a perfectly all-powerful God, is not a deception?

First, we'd need to be convinced that God IS responsible for the "creation of evil."

 

[AmericanCatholic]

ESPECIALLY important for those (well, only one - the RCC) that insist that only ONE (itself) may authoritatively interpret Scripture and insist that one (self) is infallible/unaccountable in such.

In that case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to even ask if that one is wrong since that one declares that that one cannot be wrong and cannot be questioned: all must accept "with docility" whatever that one says. CCC 85, 87, etc.




.

This does not provide any value-added to my question. Again, how can an infallible man know when he is being deceived by a perfectly all-powerful God who has demonstrated His capacity for creating evil?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ESPECIALLY important for those (well, only one - the RCC) that insist that only ONE (itself) may authoritatively interpret Scripture and insist that one (self) is infallible/unaccountable in such.

In that case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to even ask if that one is wrong since that one declares that that one cannot be wrong and cannot be questioned: all must accept "with docility" whatever that one says. CCC 85, 87, etc.

.

There are of course a "few" that refused to do so

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html

*snip*

....A clergyman hopelessly entrenched in Roman Catholic dogma once taunted Tyndale with the statement, “We are better to be without God’s laws than the Pope’s”.
Tyndale was infuriated by such Roman Catholic heresies, and he replied, “I defy the Pope and all his laws. If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!”........

 

[AmericanCatholic]

First, we'd need to be convinced that God IS responsible for the "creation of evil."

I agree. The question is directed against those who believe a perfectly good God is capable of evil acts or is responsible for the creation of evil (on the basis that He is all-powerful).

 

[racer]

If God is responsible for the creation of evil, how can an infallible man know that his interpretation, if received from a perfectly all-powerful God, is not a deception?

Let me impart some profound wisdom upon you . . . if you don't mind.

Are you ready? Cuz, here it goes:

If "ifs and buts" were cherries and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas!!!!

 

[squint]

This does not provide any value-added to my question. Again, how can an infallible man know when he is being deceived by a perfectly all-powerful God who has demonstrated His capacity for creating evil?

God has openly stated that HE WILL provide a person their delusions.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions

 

[Albion]

Albion, thanks for sharing your opinions, but until I am 100% certain that your opinions are infallibly correct, I for one am not about to stake my eternal destiny on ANY of them. And anyone else around here would likewise be a fool to stake his eternal destiny on anything less than 100% certainty. The goal must be 100%.

Yet, as you go through life you stake your eternal destiny and much else on decisions and judgments you make--every day--that are far less than 100% certain.

Interesting opinion, but obviously incorrect.

It's not incorrect and it's not "obviously" incorrect. What is obvious, is that yo don't know the difference between "infallible" and "inerrant." You don't, do you?

Consequently, God has an antidote to human error, in fact, God's antidote (inspiration), when fully administered by Him, is infallible and, by virtue of His infallibility, renders the recipient infallible.

No man is infallible, even if the Word of God is infallible.

That's the difference between a seminary professor and Paul. When a seminary professor writes a book, it is almost certain to be full of errors. When Paul wrote Romans, there was NO POSSIBILITY of error (i.e., assuming God was fully administering inspiration at the moment which, in my opinion, He was).

That doesn't make Paul infallible.

It fully informs me about all my decisions? Please. That's patently absurd. The Bible doesn't even tell me whether I should show up for work tomorrow.

And you tbink that when to show up at work is an "ethical" decision. What was that about "absurd" again?

Ever heard of 911?

No, none of us here except yourself knows the first thing about anything. Please fill us in--after you find out what "infallibility" means, of course.

 

[Albion]

YEAH Albion. 38,000 infallible inspired groups CANNOT be one whit WRONG. No, it's NOT possible...that would NEVER happen. An 'inspired error?' What are you thinking Albion? They are ALL 100% certifiably RIGHT.

Every last one of 'em.

Who are you debating against with that strawman? I say that there is no reason to conclude (as some do) that every one of them must be wrong. I did not say that every one of them must be right.

 

[squint]

Who are you debating against with that strawman? I say that there is no reason to conclude (as some do) that every one of them must be wrong. I did not say that every one of them must be right.

Please Albion. None of the groups in question THINK they are wrong. They are ALL following what they perceive to be 100% right.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

There can be only one... and its origin must be Jerusalem.

Forgive me...

 

[Albion]

Please Albion. None of the groups in question THINK they are wrong. They are ALL following what they perceive to be 100% right.

Of course they do, but that has absolutely nothing to do with question of whether or not any of them CAN be right. The proposition is normally stated like this--There are thousands of churches (of a category that the speaker exempts his own church from being part of), and they teach different things, THEREFORE, none of them CAN be correct.

In fact, that is a non-sequitur. There is no reason at all why one of them can't be correct.

And it doesn't matter one way or the other that all or most of them think they are correct. They don't, BTW, think they are infallibly correct, as the Roman Church does. They merely think that they have gotten the message right. Why can't it be so that at least one has?

 

[squint]

Of course they do, but that has absolutely nothing to do with question of whether or not any of them CAN be right.

Oh, you mean only by unperceived CHANCE? That of ALL of these groups there may be a CHANCE that only ONE of them may be 100% right?

Let me put it this way. Jesus said "I AM THE TRUTH."

We can presume in that equation that ONLY JESUS is TRUTH, being 100% RIGHT.

So are ANY of them 100% Jesus? I say no. There is NOT ONE CHANCE that any of them IS JESUS and therefore ZERO percent that 'any' of them are 100% RIGHT.

The proposition is normally stated like this--There are thousands of churches (of a category that the speaker exempts his own church from being part of), and they teach different things, THEREFORE, none of them CAN be correct.

In fact, that is a non-sequitur. There is no reason at all why one of them can't be correct.

Please apply your chance theory to the comparison of 100% right above.

Is there a CHANCE that any of these groups can be 100% Jesus?

No. Your position is the non-sequitor/strawman. You have merely set the framework under the strawman guise of 'chance.'

And it doesn't matter one way or the other that all or most of them think they are correct. They don't, BTW, think they are infallibly correct, as the Roman Church does.

Oh come on Albion. NONE of them are following what they consider to even be 1% wrong.

They merely think that they have gotten the message right. Why can't it be so that at least one has?

Because Jesus took the position of 100% TRUTH only to HIMSELF.

The balance of us by depiction of scripture see only in part and as through darkness, relegating the 100% accurate view effectively OFF the table. To be 100% correct one would have to eliminate the partial/darkness view. That cannot be logically performed keeping honor to the facts that Truth brings on these matters.

s

 

[Albion]

Oh, you mean only by unperceived CHANCE? That of ALL of these groups there may be a CHANCE that only ONE of them may be 100% right?

Well, that isn't the only possibility. It could be that one church is better at linguistics and Bible study, etc. and so comes up with the right interpretation that escapes all the others. You can't deny that this is possible.

But OTOH, I'll take mere chance, too. It doesn't matter how the truth is come by, just so long as it is. The claim that none of these many churches can know the truth is just that--that they CANNOT know it, not merely that they DON'T know it.

Let me put it this way. Jesus said "I AM THE TRUTH."

We can presume in that equation that ONLY JESUS is TRUTH, being 100% RIGHT.

So are ANY of them 100% Jesus? I say no.

My answer is that you've misunderstood Jesus. But that aside, we still have the old, tired argument that the RCC makes about the multiplicity of non-RC churches PROVING somehow that none of them can know what the Bible means. It's that which I thought we were discussing.

Oh come on Albion. NONE of them are following what they consider to even be 1% wrong.

Again, it isn't relevant that they think they are correct. All that matters is whether any of them can be.

Because Jesus took the position of 100% TRUTH only to HIMSELF.

That's a totally different issue.

 

[squint]

Well, that isn't the only possibility. It could be that one church is better at linguistics and Bible study, etc. and so comes up with the right interpretation that escapes all the others. You can't deny that this is possible.

I openly deny that is even possible based on ONLY JESUS being 100% TRUTH/100% RIGHT.

But OTOH, I'll take mere chance, too.

And that is what could be termed BLIND FAITH in 'chance.'

It doesn't matter how the truth is come by, just so long as it is.

IT IS beyond chance that JESUS Is 100% TRUTH/RIGHT.

The claim that none of these many churches can know the truth is just that--that they CANNOT know it, not merely that they DON'T know it.

The fact is they CANNOT KNOW 100% TRUTH because THEY ARE NOT 100% TRUTH.

I'm sorry if this simplicity escapes you on the basis of 'chance.'

Clinging to 'chance' some group is 100% TRUTH is absurd in light of ONLY ONE 100% TRUTH, Jesus.

Therefore INFALLIBILITY by any group is an open BALDFACED lie. An openly demonstrated FAILURE to bow to simple FACT.

None are exempt from ERROR because ONLY JESUS is 100% ERROR FREE.

s