Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

[jarrettcpr]

to say this is like saying God has two sets of standards- one for jews and one for gentiles.do you not realize that church is part of God's chosen people? if its wrong for the anyone to murder whether in word or deed and no one dares disagree, why is it that the mark of true worship and seal of the creator's authority is spit upon? (I am speaking to myself as much as anyone)
why is it we curse the sabbath and in many cases those who worship the sabbath and denounce those who love God as heretic or God forbid obedient. stryder said it himself, legalism is a heart attitude. the old testament (just as valid today as the new) speak of God delighting in those outside of israel who bound themselves to God and kept his sabbath (Isaiah 56.)

in response to what you said about God changing: "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. Malachi 3:6

Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. James 1:17

God neither changes in character or in how he deals with men. the men of the old testament were to live by faith as the men of the new testament and we who live now are to live by faith. see the those who were the true Israel of God were those who held to the faith of abraham those who looked to the promised seed- whether they were of Israel or not and we now who are of the church look back in faith in the promised seed who came and will come again. another interesting thing comes into mind when speaking of the faith of abraham his faith was coupled with action- he acted in faith in james its says the profession of faith without works is dead just one cannot justify himself with works but only with the grace of God. I say this to let you know that faith is more complex than some profession we make at one point our live or even throughout our lives; we must bear fruit in accordance with the grace given us. in romans paul spoke of the jews as a nation not being able to fulfill what God had for them but that the Gentiles were given this chance- he mention that they were given a law of righteousness but did not pursue it by faith but as if it were by works. in another place in romans he speaks that a man is a jew if he is one inwardly circumcised of heart and still in another place speaks of gentiles being grafted into the olive tree of salvation- these all serve to illustrate that gentiles and Jews were spiritual israel in christ; when you said that sabbath were a perpetual sign between god and the children of israel, you are right in the sense that israel is much more than a nation it is the bodied of those who believe and are sanctified of God in the old testament and new testament and today.

you also misunderstood the reason God came off as so ruthless to the canaanites in the old testament- they were clearly being judged by God to wicked nations who piled up God's wrath for themselves. when one looks at the account of sodom and Gommorah God though he knows the hearts of men went in person to the city to see whether or not the reports of their activity were true; this shows that he is a fair judge. another way to look at the seeming unjust treatment of the surrounding nations was that God was protecting the bloodline within the holy nation through which the seed of promise was going to come.(jesus) as well as to remind us how much God hates sin. it also serves to remind us that as christians even today we are to be a peculiar people( again I am speaking to myself as well)

I don't disagree. Though God himself doesn't change, it would be wrong for us to say the things in the OT did not change.

Eye for an eye was one example. Another would be not taking oaths, vows, and to not swear but let your yes be a yes and your no be a no.

Stryder06 might call that a provision, I call it a change. Though it was God's intention to do so all along. But nonetheless it is a change.

Here are some definitions that Webster has...

:to make different in some particular : alter; transform
:to give a different position, course, or direction to
:to replace with another
:to make a shift
:to pass from one phase to another
:to undergo transformation, transition, or substitution <winter changed to spring>
synonyms change, alter, vary, modify mean to make or become different.


Same goes with the sacrificial system... it has changed. Though IMO technically it has transformed. Jesus is the final sacrifice. I also beleive the same in regards with the Sabbath. The Sabbath has transformed and Jesus is our rest.

I never once have cursed the Sabbath, nor do I oppose those who do keep the Sabbath is in the day.

 

[CalmRon]

the sacrificial system was added because of trangression, christ abolished it when he became our perfect sacrifice. but sabbath wasn't ceremonial it wasn't added later because of trangression rather the ceremonial sacrificial system added because of the transgression of laws like the sabbath law. I don't believe that the sabbath was done away with or transformed, while I believe christ is our rest I don't believe that the sabbath was symbolic of him- because when this specific command was given it reference creation, it never mention the future things nor is it regarded as a shadow. in the OT it is regarded as a sanctifying mark, a perpetual sign of covenant between God and his people.

as I have mention the purpose of the eye for an eye principle was to impress on the israelites the depths of God's hatred of sin and his desire to sanctify them against evil and injustice. they serve now as warnings and goads for us as christian and remind us that to God we are accountable above all (1 corinthians 10) so we don't or at least shouldn't feel the need to fear an eye for an eye retribution from our fellow christians, as the purpose of that has passed.

 

[Stryder06]

As I said it was part of his plan all along and as you said God makes provisions. Though at the same time it is a 'change'. We both know it. God clearly says eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth (in the OT). But now (in the NT) God says show mercy, and don't do what I said previously any longer (eye for an eye). It doesn't change any more than that.

But God said that He doesn't change. So how do you reconcille(sp?) that?

I can now argue that the Sabbath has also changed though I call it a transformation. I view the Sabbath differently than Sabbatarians. Christ Jesus is my Sabbath. For he is the Lord of the Sabbath and my rest is in him.

Where does this sabbath change occur though? Even if you do believe that God 'changes' you have evidence of Him making the change. No such evidence is available to support a change in the day of worship.

 

[student ad x]

MOD HAT ON

The thread is being closed for staff review. Expect some posts to be removed in a thread cleanup. Thank you for your patience.

MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON

Thread reopened.
MOD HAT OFF

 

[CalmRon]

But God said that He doesn't change. So how do you reconcille(sp?) that?



Where does this sabbath change occur though? Even if you do believe that God 'changes' you have evidence of Him making the change. No such evidence is available to support a change in the day of worship.

the change being spoken of is a matter of interpretation.

 

[Stryder06]

the change being spoken of is a matter of interpretation.

I'd like to think that it's more of a matter of taking God at His word and trusting Him. I think we all agree that God makes changes in how He deals with us. But when He say that He doesn't change, I think that means that His character, who He is, will never change.

And the law if a reflection of His character. The law is no more able to change than God is.

 

[PaladinValer]

Weren't the Pharisees admonished for this type of legalism?

Luke 13:14-16 NASB
​

But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, "There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day."

But the Lord answered him and said, "You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?

"And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"
​

Keeping the Sabbath holy means doing God's work. It doesn't mean drop everything, don't go to your job, and contemplate God all day long.

It isn't a sin to go to your job or fix something on Saturday. Then again, choosing to rest on Saturday isn't necessarily sinful either, unless you get doctrinal about it.

 

[ticker]

Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

Is not doing something God never asked us to do a sin??? Of course not

 

[Cribstyl]

Ok, I'm going to make this as simple as I can.

First: Do you believe that there will be people that get cast into hell. If no then don't bother reading any further because it won't help.

Second: It's about a lifestyle. We all fall, we are all sinners, and we are all guilty of death. Should one person think that their "good deeds" are going to get them into heaven as opposed to someone else who doesn't do what they are doing, then they are mistaken. All are saved by grace and not works.

What we don't want to do however is live like we did before we came to Christ. If our brother is in darkness and we neglect to inform them, then they will die but their blood will be upon us. The converse holds true that if we warn them but they do not pay heed, then they shall die, but we shall be delivered because we did that which was asked of us (one of the minor prophets I believe, but I can't recall right now).

If we love our brother, than we will let them know when they are in error, and what the consequence is if they continue in error. No one knows what the end is for any individual besides God, but we all know what the end of sin is.

I agree with this statement, but I'm sure we have different doctrines to teach.

 

[TheCatholic]

Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

Is not doing something God never asked us to do a sin??? Of course not

Good post. Jesus never asked Gentiles to observe ritual Saturday worship.

 

[Stryder06]

Good post. Jesus never asked Gentiles to observe ritual Saturday worship.

"Nor thy neighbor that is within thy gates..."

Not to mention the gentiles in Acts that kept the sabbath.

And of course I guess Jesus is suppose to be our example in everything else, except for how we worship.

 

[TheCatholic]

How does one keep the sabbath holy? When you say holy you mean as "set apart" correct?

Simple. You honor the "meaning" and the "intent" of the commandment. You do NOT keep it holy just by observing ritual Jewish Saturday observances:

II. THE LORD'S DAY

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103
​

​

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106
​

​

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108
​

​

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.



104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.

 

[Stryder06]

Simple. You honor the "meaning" and the "intent" of the commandment. You do NOT keep it holy just by observing ritual Jewish Saturday observances: -snip-

Not so simple, because this is incorrect. At no time does the bible say that we are to keep the "meaning and intent" of the sabbath. We aren't even told to honor the sabbath. We are told to Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. And you're right, no service will keep the sabbath holy in and of itself. It's about building relationship with God. We look to the Savior and reflect on what He has done for us.

To do this on Sunday is nothing short of disrespect to God. Man has essentially said "Lord how bout we do it this way."

Tell me, how do you keep the day holy? Is it ok to go shopping, or to the movies? Is it fine to go home, kick off your shoes and watch the game?

The sabbath has been totally trampled and even those who say Sunday is the new sabbath still don't keep that day holy.

 

[TheCatholic]

......To do this on Sunday is nothing short of disrespect to God.......

And in one, massive, general judgemental sweep you accuse all Christians of disrespecting God. Amazing. I honor Christ by recognizing his fullfillment of your Jewish rituals.

......Tell me, how do you keep the day holy?.....

By obeying his command at the Last Supper: "Do this in memory of me".
You see, I fiollow Jesus, not your OT rituals.

 

[ThomasDa]

And in one, massive, general judgemental sweep you accuse all Christians of disrespecting God. Amazing. I honor Christ by recognizing his fullfillment of your Jewish rituals.



By obeying his command at the Last Supper: "Do this in memory of me".
You see, I fiollow Jesus, not your OT rituals.

I hate to state the obvious, but you make it so easy that I can't resist.
God never calls His Sabbath a Jewish ritual.

During the "Last Supper" Jesus was explaining the way to observe the Passover from then on. The Passover is a once a year memorial keep on the evening of Abib 14.

 

[Stryder06]

And in one, massive, general judgemental sweep you accuse all Christians of disrespecting God. Amazing. I honor Christ by recognizing his fullfillment of your Jewish rituals.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

I'm not judging because all Christians don't know that Sunday isn't the day they should be worshiping on. There are those who do know but think it doesn't matter.

You say you honor God by recognizing His fulfillment of my Jewish ritual. Tell me, when did the sabbath become a Jewish ritual? How can you honor God by not doing what He asked you to do, but instead telling Him that you're going to worship on a day and declare a day holy that He never made holy?

By obeying his command at the Last Supper: "Do this in memory of me".
You see, I follow Jesus, not your OT rituals.

Do this in memory of me was talking about communion, not the sabbath. We keep communion also. And if anything, this (the Lord's supper) would be a Jewish custom as I don't recall anyone commanding the gentiles to take of the Lord's supper. Of course Paul speaks to them about being pure before taking communion, but the command was never given.

The sabbath is a memorial to creation. There is no getting around that.

 

[TheCatholic]

God never calls His Sabbath a Jewish ritual.

But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days

 

[Stryder06]

But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.

Wrong

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days

Ok, how about it was introduced by God (did you catch the switch of words there ) in Genesis one. It is than reiterated in the fourth commandment. For in six days the Lord created the heavens and the earth..." It doesn't say millions of years.

So do we take man's word over Gods? We've been here before. You throw out Genesis one (which is very interesting since it is the beginning of all things) than where do we stop? Was there really an exodus? Was there really a Moses that really received the ten commandments? Or is it all just story concocted by man?

 

[ThomasDa]

But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days

I know, I know don't confuse you with any facts.