Good reason to be an atheist?(moved from Christian Appologetics)

[WingsOfEagles07]

So if before the fall we were herbivores...after the fall we became omnivores....if we wish to be perfect we should be vegetarians? an omnivorous diet is sinful? Peta will be pleased,lol.

No, if you read your bible then you would know that an omnivorous diet is not sinful. It was the result of sin that we have omnivores because they were cursed and they went against their own kind, Read your Bible, Do not use me and other people as a source.

 

[WingsOfEagles07]

That requires a strict literal interpretation of the Bible. Not all Christians read the Garden of Eden story as a literal account of what took place.


eudaimonia,

Mark

That is why most "Christians" believe it literally happened because if it didn't "literally" happened then what happened? If it didn't happen "literally" then creation is nothing. Besides, why does this matter to you, what basis do you have making this statement?

Do you know the answer to that question in your picture?

4^2 + 3^2 = 16 + 9
--------------------
25 = x^2 x = 5

 

[Isambard]

No I do not accept this claim, I mean for the first link it already elimates us as apes by probability.

No it doesn't.

You know what I find weird, Is that people say we have evolved from these previous hominds, over the course of millions of years. But how do us as humans know this? Also, If we supposively came from these creature, Where is the science they did? If they don't have any, were they dumb? This situation is highly illogical. There is no proof to say we came from these creature, just by we have similar skulls, Yeaaahhhh Riiiiggggghhhtttt.

What's highly illogical is for you to ask such stupid questions when the answers have already been given in a previous reply. Given that this has been consistent among your replies for the entire thread, I can't say I'm surprised.

We were not there.

Obviously all the criminals in prisons must be freed then, I mean how many jury and judges who convicted them were there to witness it?

Similarities in skull structure does not give proof to anything.

Yes it does.

How do we know that they were able to speak?

By looking at their throat structure.

How come they were hairy but our generation just happened to be hairless basically. We do not grow full coats of fur.

Skull similarity is one thing, but facial features are another.

Both differ. Fail.

Also, Wikipedia is not a reliable source, I right not could just go delete that information just because it says "edit" ..Again this is a belief system(Evolution) based on the assumptions of scientists who were not there.

Fail once again. The info is cited. If you weren't so lazy, you would've figured out that you can check the sources yourself.

 

[WingsOfEagles07]

No it doesn't.


What's highly illogical is for you to ask such stupid questions when the answers have already been given in a previous reply. Given that this has been consistent among your replies for the entire thread, I can't say I'm surprised.


Obviously all the criminals in prisons must be freed then

, I mean how many jury and judges who convicted them were there to witness it?


Yes it does.


By looking at their throat structure.

Both differ. Fail.


Fail once again. The info is cited. If you weren't so lazy, you would've figured out that you can check the sources yourself.

About the Judge with criminals, I can see to understand that you do not understand the argument in any sense whatsoever, because you clearly missed the point I was trying to make, and This argument you gave to this is self-refutable.

Yes information is cited but how much of it is 100% true, you cannot prove the supposed "fact" that we came from these previous beings by skull structure. Oh, and that picture you posted, note that is just "one" person out of billions, that does not prove anything except the absurdity of your reasoning of logic. You obviously do not understand any type of creation because of your evolutionary view, because you totally miss my points by far which only shows your faulty reasoning. Way to many fallacies in fact for your position of presuppositions of the evolutionary wprldview.

 

[SuperPhil]

No it doesn't.


What's highly illogical is for you to ask such stupid questions when the answers have already been given in a previous reply. Given that this has been consistent among your replies for the entire thread, I can't say I'm surprised.


Obviously all the criminals in prisons must be freed then, I mean how many jury and judges who convicted them were there to witness it?


Yes it does.


By looking at their throat structure.





Both differ. Fail.


Fail once again. The info is cited. If you weren't so lazy, you would've figured out that you can check the sources yourself.

This whole post is absolutely hilarious! I know wingsofeagles might seem be the one preaching and you teaching, but your shallow and ignorant claims have re-assured in my mind that Christ did create a young earth and evolution is theory created to remove God from everything! Therefore, its like you are preaching and he is doing the teaching

Don't bother responding to me, for I won't respond back. I believe we are all sinners, and we all need a savior, if you think you're a monkey than so be it! You still need Christ!

 

[PT Calvinist]

The Flood of Noah was responsible for the vast majority of the geologic strata we see today. This is the historic position of young earth creationists. It is the official position of the most well-known creation organizations, including the Institute of Creation Research in southern California (Welcome - Institute for Creation Research) and Answers in Genesis (Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics ), based both in Kentucky and Brisbane, Australia.

 

[Isambard]

About the Judge with criminals, I can see to understand that you do not understand the argument in any sense whatsoever,

I find this highly ironic given your absolutely horrid butchering of the english language.

because you clearly missed the point I was trying to make, and This argument you gave to this is self-refutable.

Prove it. I expect this another reply you'll conveniantly ignore in favour of espousing more nonesense.

Yes information is cited but how much of it is 100% true, you cannot prove the supposed "fact" that we came from these previous beings by skull structure.

Awsome. So no evidence is good enough to convince you I see.

Oh, and that picture you posted, note that is just "one" person out of billions, that does not prove anything except the absurdity of your reasoning of logic.

You've never been to a beach have you? Your reply demonstrates the fail that is your vision.

You obviously do not understand any type of creation because of your evolutionary view.

I understand Creationism perfectly. Every reply is a variation of "Goddunit!"

Here is a visual representation
YouTube - Simpsons - The Myth Of Creation

 

[Isambard]

The Flood of Noah was responsible for the vast majority of the geologic strata we see today. This is the historic position of young earth creationists. It is the official position of the most well-known creation organizations, including the Institute of Creation Research in southern California (Welcome - Institute for Creation Research) and Answers in Genesis (Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics ), based both in Kentucky and Brisbane, Australia.

From ICR
"The writer has documented in two recent Impact articles1, 2 from admissions by evolutionists that the idea of particles-to-people evolution does not meet the criteria of a scientific theory. There are no evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed, either during human history or in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale."

"The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and New Age evolutionists may place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man."
Articles / Impact / Evolution Is Religion--Not Science - Institute for Creation Research

From AiG
"Evolution as a religious system has been adopted by many students, scholars and laypeople as a way to explain the origin and the development of the cosmos and all life including man. They are building their lives on the following beliefs:

1. Space, matter and time are the infinite and the eternal trinity. It is neither being created or destroyed, only changing in form and essence;
2. Because time is infinite, the potential of accidents to happen, for example, the formation of life from previously nonliving matter, becomes not only possible, but probable;
3. All life that exists today is the result of these chance accidents occurring in time and giving rise to a process of continued upward development of life on Earth. Man, ape, dog, cat, ant and plant, all life, at one distant point in time arose from at least one common ancestor. Evolution as religion

What ToE actually says;
"In biology, evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Though changes produced in any one generation are small, differences accumulate with each generation and can, over time, cause substantial changes in the population, a process that can culminate in the emergence of new species[1]. Indeed, the similarities amongst species suggest that all known species are descended from a common ancestor (or ancestral gene pool) through this process of gradual divergence [2]."
Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice how both organization are completely off as to what ToE actually says.*

*I won't go into how wrong what you quoted about Noah's flood is as there is already enough on my plate without having to further sidetrack. There are several extensive vids debunking the claims made by both organizations which I could provide links for if you're interested.

 

[Isambard]

This whole post is absolutely hilarious! I know wingsofeagles might seem be the one preaching and you teaching, but your shallow and ignorant claims have re-assured in my mind that Christ did create a young earth and evolution is theory created to remove God from everything! Therefore, its like you are preaching and he is doing the teaching

Don't bother responding to me, for I won't respond back. I believe we are all sinners, and we all need a savior, if you think you're a monkey than so be it! You still need Christ!

Whats this? A creationist making a claim then running away? Call the press! lol...

 

[PT Calvinist]

Notice how both organization are completely off as to what ToE actually says.*

*I won't go into how wrong what you quoted about Noah's flood is as there is already enough on my plate without having to further sidetrack. There are several extensive vids debunking the claims made by both organizations which I could provide links for if you're interested.

Interesting...as long as they're professionals..Just that back in the past..even secular historians and scientists have proven the flood and given evidence.such was used in "The Quest for Noah's Ark" Documentary.
And they believed in evolution...Like some evolutionists say to theistic creationists "you can believe in creation and in evolution"
Likewise...you can believe in the flood and still be an evolutionist...so I don't see what's the problem

 

[Eudaimonist]

That is why most "Christians" believe it literally happened because if it didn't "literally" happened then what happened?

Something else. Something that the ancient Hebrews would not have understood, except as in fable form.

Besides, why does this matter to you, what basis do you have making this statement?

It doesn't matter to me. I thought it would matter to you. I said it for your edification.

My basis for making the statement is that it is a true statement about the range of Christian beliefs.

Do you know the answer to that question in your picture?

Yes, I do. I excelled in mathematics in school, and I still remember a good deal of it.

You did a great job in finding the answer.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Isambard]

Interesting...as long as they're professionals..Just that back in the past..even secular historians and scientists have proven the flood and given evidence.such was used in "The Quest for Noah's Ark" Documentary.
And they believed in evolution...Like some evolutionists say to theistic creationists "you can believe in creation and in evolution"
Likewise...you can believe in the flood and still be an evolutionist...so I don't see what's the problem

Thats because evolution and the idea of a global flood have nothing to do with each other aside from the impossibility of getting the extensive number of species from such a small breeding population. That, and the impossibility of certain species to survive given their sensitivity to saline shift.

The major problem of the global flood story, lies in geology, archeology, palentology, and anthropology.

 

[PT Calvinist]

Thats because evolution and the idea of a global flood have nothing to do with each other aside from the impossibility of getting the extensive number of species from such a small breeding population. That, and the impossibility of certain species to survive given their sensitivity to saline shift.

The major problem of the global flood story, lies in geology, archeology, palentology, and anthropology.

As for the Animals fitting in the Ark problem. Here's an excerpt a friend PM'ed me about.

Classification . . . . Number of Species . . . . Number of Kinds on the Ark
Mammals . . . . . . . . .3,700 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,700 (a few live in water).
Birds . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,600 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60,200 (seven pairs according to
Gen. 7:3)
Reptiles. . . . . . . . . . .6,300 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,300
Amphibians. . . . . . . .2,500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,500
Fishes. . . . . . . . . . . .20,600. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .zero
Other marine life . . . 192,605. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .zero
Insects . . . . . . . . . . . 850,000 . . . (Since insects are very small, and a great many could be stored in a small area, calculation would be difficult.)
Total . . . . . . . . . . . .1,072,305 . . . . . . . . . . . . .72,700
The total number of mammals would be 3,700 times two pair which equals 7,400 animals. 7,400 divided by 240 = 31 boxcars used.

Since Gen. 7:3 says to take seven pairs of every bird then the total for birds would be 8,600 times two pair times 7 or 120,400 animals. 120,400 x 480 = 250 boxcars. The reptiles and amphibians would be 6,300 plus 2,500 or 8,800. 8,800 times two pair equals 17,600 animals. 17,600 divided by 480 = 37 boxcars.

The total number of boxcars used would be 318 with a total number of animals at 145,400. There would be 251 boxcars left over. That means that only 56% of the ark would be used for storing the animals. Obviously, then, the rest of the space would be used for food for the people and animals and sleeping quarters. In addition, considering that insects are extremely small, it is easily conceivable that they could be housed in part of the remaining space.

 

[Rasta]

As for the Animals fitting in the Ark problem. Here's an excerpt a friend PM'ed me about.

What are the dimensions of the box cars?

 

[PT Calvinist]

What are the dimensions of the box cars?

oops I left out the rest of the excerpt. Here's the info you wanted though:

The dimensions of the ark have a ratio of six to one. The Ark was six times longer than it was wide. This is the best ratio for modern ship building. Model stability tests have shown that the design is stable for waves up to 200 feet high and that the ark could have rotated 90 degrees and still righted itself.
The volume of the ark would be 450 feet long by 75 feet wide by 45 feet high. This equals 1,518,750 cubic feet and is comparable to 569 modern railroad boxcars. Therefore each boxcar, by comparison, would be 1,518,750 divided by 569, or 2,669 cubic feet of space.

 

[b.hopeful]

Perhaps one can be an evolutionist and believe in a literal flood and literal ark....perhaps.

But how one can believe in the literal flood and literal ark and be honest and intelligent...I can't comprehend that.

 

[Isambard]

As for the Animals fitting in the Ark problem. Here's an excerpt a friend PM'ed me about.

What wouldve happened to all the fresh water fish? That said, what about all the plant life? How about the meat requirements for all the carnivores, where did that come from?

 

[Rasta]

I find it highly unlikely that it happened at all. There are so many problems with the whole story, it doesn't make sense.

Modern shipbuilders would have a hard time making a boat that big out of wood, using modern technology like iron or steel as reinforcement. There was such a ship that was built in 1909 called the Wyoming. It didn't do well in heavy seas, sank, and killed all on board. This boat needed pumps to constantly pump out the water due to the stress the shifting seas have on wooden boats. Using steam engines, they were able to use a small crew of 11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)

Now Noah, if he existed, was supposed to have lived in the Bronze age. No steam engines, no steel, no iron. Only copper, bronze, wood, pitch and four sons.

Modern shipbuilding takes years. It would have taken much longer for only five people, who don't have access to modern techniques or modern tools. Just gathering the materials would have taken years, not to mention building it. Not to mention gathering all of the animals from the North American prairie dog, to the antarctic penguin, from the Australian Koala, to Komodo Dragon.

It's so implausible.

We haven't even talked about the geological record.

 

[PT Calvinist]

What wouldve happened to all the fresh water fish? That said, what about all the plant life? How about the meat requirements for all the carnivores, where did that come from?

Simply these organisms were preserved in various ways outside the Ark through the flood.

 

[Isambard]

Simply these organisms were preserved in various ways outside the Ark through the flood.

How? If there was another way of preserving creatures, why did God even bother to command Noah to collect two of every animal in the first place?