Reverse Racism

[charityagape]

Hmmm............the Obama as Anti Christ thread seems to have been taken over by talk of racism so maybe we should have a thread devoted to the topic.

I'm trying to think of an actual question, but really would could probably debate all aspects.

Is reverse racism an issue in America? If you critize someone who is not white can you often be accused of racism? Are minorities technically in the minority anymore?

Anyway lets try not to get too rough, think of this as a sparring match and not a gun fight.

 

[probinson]

Hmmm............the Obama as Anti Christ thread seems to have been taken over by talk of racism so maybe we should have a thread devoted to the topic.

I'm trying to think of an actual question, but really would could probably debate all aspects.

Is reverse racism an issue in America? If you critize someone who is not white can you often be accused of racism? Are minorities technically in the minority anymore?

Anyway lets try not to get too rough, think of this as a sparring match and not a gun fight.

Long time no see!

I was the one in that thread that used the term "reverse racism", although that's just a more gentle way to say "racism".

What I was referring to was the idea that companies must make sure to hire the required number of minorities. Companies are not allowed to make some hires based on merit, but rather, on the color of someone's skin or their nationality. IOW, a more qualified white person may not get a job because of the politically correct rules that require "X" number of minorities on the payroll.

That's just a different kind of racism.

 

[charityagape]

I think there was a time and place for requiring that companies hire certain amounts of minorities, because they were refusing to hire qualified people BECAUSE they were of a different color.

However, I think those days are gone.

 

[WileyCoyote]

That's just a different kind of racism.

I look at it as America atoning for it's sin of enslaving millions of Africans against their will and cursing them with slave labor conditions for nearly 400 years without offering any kind of compensation. Now America is atoning for that sin in the area of Affirmative Action and things like that. That's what makes this country so great.

 

[BenAdam]

I look at it as America atoning for it's sin of enslaving millions of Africans against their will and cursing them with slave labor conditions for nearly 400 years without offering any kind of compensation. Now America is atoning for that sin in the area of Affirmative Action and things like that. That's what makes this country so great.

Atonement happened at the Cross.

Most white Americans had ZERO to do with enslaving people. Many of their ancestors came over from Europe to escape starvation, persecution, to have a better life, etc.

 

[probinson]

I think there was a time and place for requiring that companies hire certain amounts of minorities, because they were refusing to hire qualified people BECAUSE they were of a different color.

As soon as we started requiring things based on skin color, we did not cure racism, we just created another, more subtle form of it.

It's not right that a better-qualified minority is denied a job to someone just because of their skin color, but neither is it right that a better-qualified white is denied a job to someone because they're not a minority.

 

[JEBrady]

I think many of the things that have happened since the 60s have improved the intolerable conditions of oppression against blacks that have existed in the US. The fact that some of the measures are unfair is something you would have to expect when using carnal methods on carnal people in order to try to bring about a more just society or to correct an unjust condition in society.

Though things have improved drastically, I don't see racial prejudice going away any time soon. It exists on both sides of the aisle, as was demonstrated even here amongst those claiming to be Christian.

I am Pentecostal, and think it's a marvelous irony that God chose a man of color to usher in the restoration of the fullness of the Spirit. That man sat outside the door in order to learn from Charles Parham, himself a racist. Racism is hatred, and I think the lesson to learn is that it's very easy to be deceived, even Christians, if we aren't serious with God. This should be a no-brainer for any Christian. Why it still isn't is beyond me.

I've been in integrated churches since I got saved, and some of my best friends are white (and black), and I've attended churches that were primarily white and primarily black, and found Christ in all. There are lots of churches though, that not only don't put Jesus first, but promulgate racism and politicism. There's real churches and false churches, and real brothers and false brothers, and I have to say, like the song goes, I want to (do everything I can) to be in that number when the saints come marching in. For anyone who hates his brother, how can the love of God be in him? The scripture doesn't half-step on this issue; we are NOT to be like the world!

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother[a] abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can[a] he love God whom he has not seen?

 

[BenAdam]

I've been in integrated churches since I got saved, and some of my best friends are white (and black), and I've attended churches that were primarily white and primarily black, and found Christ in all. There are lots of churches though, that not only don't put Jesus first, but promulgate racism and politicism. There's real churches and false churches, and real brothers and false brothers, and I have to say, like the song goes, I want to (do everything I can) to be in that number when the saints come marching in. For anyone who hates his brother, how can the love of God be in him? The scripture doesn't half-step on this issue; we are NOT to be like the world!

Couldn't agree more!

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

I look at it as America atoning for it's sin of enslaving millions of Africans against their will and cursing them with slave labor conditions for nearly 400 years without offering any kind of compensation. Now America is atoning for that sin in the area of Affirmative Action and things like that. That's what makes this country so great.

That post made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Are you saying the end justifies the means?

Because someone 400 years ago enslaved another person, that gives any form of racism a right to exist?

Hey, glad I know that! My great grand parents were Irish and suffered persecution when they came to the US in the early 1900's - how do I get my compensation?

 

[KingZzub]

You believe and you receive, Charles, the only God ordained way to increase.

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

You believe and you receive, Charles, the only God ordained way to increase.

Huh?

 

[KingZzub]

Charles,

If you ask God for any form of recompense and increase and then believe for it, you will increase.

I agreed with your post, I was just answering your rhetorical question with a call to faith. Any opportunity and I tell people to believe and receive!

Blessings,
Ben

 

[WileyCoyote]

That post made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Are you saying the end justifies the means?

Because someone 400 years ago enslaved another person, that gives any form of racism a right to exist?

Hey, glad I know that! My great grand parents were Irish and suffered persecution when they came to the US in the early 1900's - how do I get my compensation?

I merely gave my opinion. You sir, are not going to bully me into accepting your POV. You're a collection of strawman arguments, as I said nothing about any racism having the right to exist. You won't get any respect from me by talking at me. Talk to me like that again, and you'll get put on my ignore list.
As for BenAdam, thank you for your honest critique. At least YOU know how to debate respectfully.

 

[Svt4Him]

NEW HAVEN — Frank Ricci has been a firefighter here for 11 years, and he would do just about anything to advance to lieutenant.

The last time the city offered a promotional exam, he said in a sworn statement, he gave up a second job and studied up to 13 hours a day. Mr. Ricci, who is dyslexic, paid an acquaintance more than $1,000 to read textbooks onto audiotapes. He made flashcards, took practice tests, worked with a study group and participated in mock interviews.

Mr. Ricci did well, he said, coming in sixth among the 77 candidates who took the exam. But the city threw out the test, because none of the 19 African-American firefighters who took it qualified for promotion. That decision prompted Mr. Ricci and 17 other white firefighters, including one Hispanic, to sue the city, alleging racial discrimination.

Their case, which will be argued before the Supreme Court on April 22, is the Roberts court’s first major confrontation with claims of racial discrimination in employment and will require the justices to choose between conflicting conceptions of the government’s role in ensuring fair treatment regardless of race.

Happening now: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/us/10scotus.html?_r=1

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

I merely gave my opinion. You sir, are not going to bully me into accepting your POV. You're a collection of strawman arguments, as I said nothing about any racism having the right to exist. You won't get any respect from me by talking at me. Talk to me like that again, and you'll get put on my ignore list.
As for BenAdam, thank you for your honest critique. At least YOU know how to debate respectfully.

You are welcome and free to express your opinion, as am I.

I was merely reacting to what you said:

I look at it as America atoning for it's sin of enslaving millions of Africans against their will and cursing them with slave labor conditions for nearly 400 years without offering any kind of compensation.

Now America is atoning for that sin in the area of Affirmative Action and things like that. That's what makes this country so great.

You did not say that racism has the right to exist, but the way you stated your opinion sure does sound like you are saying the US is getting what she deserves and is making an atonement for past sins. In other words, your post indicated that you were justifying it.

Based on that justification, I attempted to demonstrate the absurdity of it by being absurd.

It reminded me of that idiot group (not saying you are part of it), that went around the US repenting for slavery. These stooges carried around a big black pot, praying into the pot because slaves had to do that so their masters couldn't hear them. It was the memory of that that made me want to puke. The similarity struck a rememberance of it.

What do I care if you put me on an ignore list? Is that some kind of threat? Because if it is, it doesn't carry any weight.

 

[charityagape]

NEW HAVEN — Frank Ricci has been a firefighter here for 11 years, and he would do just about anything to advance to lieutenant.

The last time the city offered a promotional exam, he said in a sworn statement, he gave up a second job and studied up to 13 hours a day. Mr. Ricci, who is dyslexic, paid an acquaintance more than $1,000 to read textbooks onto audiotapes. He made flashcards, took practice tests, worked with a study group and participated in mock interviews.

Mr. Ricci did well, he said, coming in sixth among the 77 candidates who took the exam. But the city threw out the test, because none of the 19 African-American firefighters who took it qualified for promotion. That decision prompted Mr. Ricci and 17 other white firefighters, including one Hispanic, to sue the city, alleging racial discrimination.

Their case, which will be argued before the Supreme Court on April 22, is the Roberts court’s first major confrontation with claims of racial discrimination in employment and will require the justices to choose between conflicting conceptions of the government’s role in ensuring fair treatment regardless of race.

Happening now: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/us/10scotus.html?_r=1

Interesting.

 

[Questioning Christian]

I look at it as America atoning for it's sin of enslaving millions of Africans against their will and cursing them with slave labor conditions for nearly 400 years without offering any kind of compensation. Now America is atoning for that sin in the area of Affirmative Action and things like that. That's what makes this country so great.

Oh, I beg your pardon. Yes, they are compensating the labor.

It's called "welfare".

Slavery was the process of doing SOMETHING, yet receiving NOTHING.
Welfare is the process of doing NOTHING, yet receiving SOMETHING.

I think we should call it even and move on.

 

[WileyCoyote]

You would have a point if most black folk were on welfare. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Andy S. Wright]

It's in our nature to divide and conquer. We can't help ourselves. Dividing over something as superfulous as epidermal pigmentation is just one of the thousands of ways we divorce ourselves from one another.

Just look at how fractured the church has become over the centuries. If we're supposed to be the shining example of God's kingdom on earth then I envision heaven's infrastructure to be designed much like this forum. I submit Israel's failings as God's nation can't touch the collective failings of the Church as a living example of God's kingdom.

Sounds negative, I know, but reality is reality. No wonder Christ asked if he would find faith on earth when he returned (Luke 18:8).

What is truly disheartening is when racism is merged with religion. From the Nation of Islam to the KKK, there are far too many religions and groups with racial purity as one of its foundational planks. It is heartbreaking to see it alive in well in Evangelical Christianity too.

I pastored a church in the mid-90's located in a predominately hispanic area of the city. I felt strongly that our church needed to reach out to all of the people in our community, regardless of heritage, skin color, native language, etc. The racism that flowed from the pews when I attempted to lead the church in that direction was staggering. Needless to say, that church no longer exists due in no small part to the lethal cocktail of ignorance and arrogance.

I've been to "black" churches where I was treated like I had walked into the building wearing a hood while brandishing a burning cross. I've been in white churches that treated anyone different from them like something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Speaking as a gentile, I'm very thankful God isn't a racist; I just wish more of his people would get that concept.

That's not to say that every church in America is like that. I know of many churches that don't have a problem accepting people of all races into the beloved. Of course, too many of those churches tend to internally segregate into cliques, more often than not.

We can't help ourselves. Birds of a feather and all that. I guess that's why Paul spent so much time trying to teach unity in the Body. God hates division within His Body yet we are more divided than ever and there's no end in sight.

 

[Questioning Christian]

You would have a point if most black folk were on welfare. Is that what you are suggesting?

I am suggesting that there have been lots of people on welfare who have gotten something for doing nothing, which would serve as the reparations their ancestors earned when they did something and received nothing.