Question About God

[deathbow21341]

God is supposed to be all knowing right? And he is also supposed to be all loving?

Why did he let there be the forbiden fruit in the garden of eden? Why does he let people sin? He KNEW Eve would take one of the forbiden fruit. He MADE her. If he was really all knowing and loving then he wouldn't let people sin.

In fact, he creates people, KNOWING that they will be sinners and go to hell. How could you say that people are not born condemned? He creates them. He knows they will sin. He condemnes them.
How is this fair?

 

[ayeess]

GOD did not TELL EVE to eat that fruit, he instructed her to do Exactly the opposite... it was out of her FREE WILL that she did that. GOD could have easily made us robots forced to love, submit, and obey his every command. BUT that's just not How our loving, caring GOD works.. HE wants us out of our free will to love him and live righteously, in communion with him. Our GOD is not a tyrant that works forcefully that is WHY we have choice, and he lets us sin.

He knows we will sin, that is why he HIMSELF had to HUMBLE himself to the point of putting himself into a human body..and die for our sins..so OUR sins would be covered and we could stand before him blameless...

 

[xJesus.Freakx]

Exactly what ayeess said

 

[ALiberalTeen]

We have free will, He/she/whatever expects us to sin, but to try not to.

 

[unkern]

Heres kinda an idea I want to pass by your mind. The Lord put the tree in the very center of the garden, so they wouldve passed by it every day. You can actually taking in the fruit by all senses this includes sight. If the Lord is all knowing he already knew that we would eat from it. So, we know he put it there for freewill, but did he want us to eat it so that we would be able to have a deeper relationship with him so that we would have knowledge of good and evil?

Also the hell that we picture is actually based on the play "dantes inferno" the Jews believed in something completely different.

 

[tpk]

Well, as people have been saying, it's got to do with free will. This may be a bad illustration (it works better with parents), but think about it for a second: Let's say you had two children. One loved you blindly without any knowledge about you or about why they should love you. The other loved you because they knew what you had done for them and in fact, they loved you even though they had the choice to not do so. Which would you rather have?

So you see, God put us here with free will, knowing that some would reject him, so that he could have a relationship with people, not puppets or robots.

Also, you bring up the point of God being cruel because he "sends" people to hell. Well, in order for God to be cruel, he would have to: 1) Do so out of pleasure, and 2) Not provide a way to get to heaven. However, the Bible clearly refutes both of those claims in TWO VERSES, which you've probably heard plenty of times before:

"(16)For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (17)For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
-John 3:16-17 NIV

1) He loves us and hates that any have to go to Hell. However, being a just God, and seeing as sin must be kept separate from God, he must send people to Hell because they sinned. Romans 3:23 says that the wage sin is death, but that the gift of God is eternal through Jesus.
2) So THE way to heaven is Jesus. He provided Jesus as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind. However, just like any gift, it's not yours until you reach out and accept it. I could hold out the keys to a brand new car and say "Here, I don't want it anymore. It's yours if you take the keys." However, the car isn't yours until you take the keys. In the same way, God won't let you in without the "key", which is Jesus. Those who choose not to accept him unfortunately choose to die forever in Hell. Given the choice between living forever and dying forever, I think I'd choose living.

Anyway, if you wish to talk more about this feel free to PM me. I'll also check back for your response in this thread.

God bless!

EDIT:

Also the hell that we picture is actually based on the play "dantes inferno" the Jews believed in something completely different.

I do believe that you are correct about us believing in hell as being based on Dante's Inferno. But would you care to explain what exactly the Jews' view of Hell was? Just wondering.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

I think the tree would be better defined as "Knowledge of Ego". God's instruction to Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree informed them of the concepts of right and wrong. Their disobedience caused them to become self aware and introduced them to ego/inadequacy, which is why they covered themselves when they realized they were nude.

 

[tpk]

Ahh I guess I forgot to mention the tree. I'll get to that after school if I have time.

 

[TanteBelle]

I don't believe that God writes out our life, chooses what sins we will make in our life and punishes us because of them. He is not our dictator as One who decidedes what we are going to do and them punishes us for something that He apparently makes us do.

 

[unkern]

Well, as people have been saying, it's got to do with free will. This may be a bad illustration (it works better with parents), but think about it for a second: Let's say you had two children. One loved you blindly without any knowledge about you or about why they should love you. The other loved you because they knew what you had done for them and in fact, they loved you even though they had the choice to not do so. Which would you rather have?

So you see, God put us here with free will, knowing that some would reject him, so that he could have a relationship with people, not puppets or robots.

Also, you bring up the point of God being cruel because he "sends" people to hell. Well, in order for God to be cruel, he would have to: 1) Do so out of pleasure, and 2) Not provide a way to get to heaven. However, the Bible clearly refutes both of those claims in TWO VERSES, which you've probably heard plenty of times before:


1) He loves us and hates that any have to go to Hell. However, being a just God, and seeing as sin must be kept separate from God, he must send people to Hell because they sinned. Romans 3:23 says that the wage sin is death, but that the gift of God is eternal through Jesus.
2) So THE way to heaven is Jesus. He provided Jesus as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind. However, just like any gift, it's not yours until you reach out and accept it. I could hold out the keys to a brand new car and say "Here, I don't want it anymore. It's yours if you take the keys." However, the car isn't yours until you take the keys. In the same way, God won't let you in without the "key", which is Jesus. Those who choose not to accept him unfortunately choose to die forever in Hell. Given the choice between living forever and dying forever, I think I'd choose living.

Anyway, if you wish to talk more about this feel free to PM me. I'll also check back for your response in this thread.

God bless!

EDIT:

I do believe that you are correct about us believing in hell as being based on Dante's Inferno. But would you care to explain what exactly the Jews' view of Hell was? Just wondering.

The translations for hell were Gehenna, Hades. these were real places (well still are) and when you had died all went to sheol that is "the grave". But those that were not obedient were not buried with their fathers and were said to go to Gehenna or Hades or the like, theses are places were they burn rotting corpses and dump garbage. Alot of interpretations suggest that when they referred to them as sleeping that they are kind of wandering around in aimlessly. Since there was no ressurrection yet that was about as far as it went.

 

[tpk]

I don't believe that God writes out our life, chooses what sins we will make in our life and punishes us because of them. He is not our dictator as One who decidedes what we are going to do and them punishes us for something that He apparently makes us do.

Well, I wouldn't say I think that God is writing things out for us, such as which
sins we will do. However, he knows what we will do before we do it and, since the Bible does tell us (I think in Romans) that He provides a way out from any sins, judges us based on whether or not we actually do it.

 

[TanteBelle]

Well, I wouldn't say I think that God is writing things out for us, such as which
sins we will do. However, he knows what we will do before we do it and, since the Bible does tell us (I think in Romans) that He provides a way out from any sins, judges us based on whether or not we actually do it.

Wouldn't you say that the bold is exactly that?

 

[tpk]

Not necessarily. Let's see if this makes more sense... God knows all possible futures. He knows all actions we can take and what outcome these will produce. He gives us opportunities to make our own decisions and has a plan to further his kingdom no matter what we do.

Is that making sense?

 

[TanteBelle]

Not necessarily. Let's see if this makes more sense... God knows all possible futures. He knows all actions we can take and what outcome these will produce. He gives us opportunities to make our own decisions and has a plan to further his kingdom no matter what we do.

Is that making sense?

That is more in line with what I believe; God knows all the possibilities, but it is up to us to decide which one we shall choose. I think you are the first person I've met who thinks this way! LOL!

 

[tpk]

Well to me it's the only thing that really makes sense. Because God created us with free will. But if he is writing our life out before it happens then what kind of free will is that? More like being puppets on a string than humans. just my opinion though.

 

[daniel777]

nvmnd.

 

[Angelwings_2009]

Hello,


I didn't read over what everyone wrote but scammed some of them I just wanted to add one quick thing.

It's almost as if God says, he is my will and way for you life. You are given the option A to follow his will and way and B to follow our own will and way. Yes, God knows the end and all, but also he has give us free will. Just like we have the free will to serve him or not, and to love him or not.

 

[christiancutie]

I think the best way anyone has described this to me was a few years back in youth group. So I'll share. It's like I have two cans of pop, root beer and diet coke, I leave them out for my brother to choose one. However, I know my brother very well and I know that he loves root beer and will choose the can of root beer not the diet coke. He comes along and picks up the can of root beer, did I make him choose it, no, I still gave him the option and the free will to choose between the two, but I knew he would pick the root beer. So, God doesn't write out our future, but he knows us so well that he knows what decisions we'll make.

And to the other part of the question, why didn't God just make it so we couldn't sin, I'll put it this way. The Church is the bride of Christ right. Would you want to force your bride to love you, or would you rather she choose to love you. God wants us to love him out of our own free will, he desires relationships with us, and a relationship in which someone has no choice whether or not to love you, isn't much of a relationship.

 

[unkern]

I think the best way anyone has described this to me was a few years back in youth group. So I'll share. It's like I have two cans of pop, root beer and diet coke, I leave them out for my brother to choose one. However, I know my brother very well and I know that he loves root beer and will choose the can of root beer not the diet coke. He comes along and picks up the can of root beer, did I make him choose it, no, I still gave him the option and the free will to choose between the two, but I knew he would pick the root beer. So, God doesn't write out our future, but he knows us so well that he knows what decisions we'll make.

And to the other part of the question, why didn't God just make it so we couldn't sin, I'll put it this way. The Church is the bride of Christ right. Would you want to force your bride to love you, or would you rather she choose to love you. God wants us to love him out of our own free will, he desires relationships with us, and a relationship in which someone has no choice whether or not to love you, isn't much of a relationship.

Hey that soda pop thing is pretty good

 

[tpk]

nice soda can analogy, Kaitlyn. that's a good way of putting it.