Peter and the Keys, Catholicism and the Pope

[NewMan99]

NewMan has taken my abuse over the rep function in good spirit. I told him his avatar looked like that guy was about to eat that baby.

He said somethin' like, "Yeah, I was just trying to decide ...ketchup or mayo."

So now I get to beat him over the head with my rants about the structure of Corpus Christi, literalizing sacramentology & pontificating the life out of ecclesiology... (right?) .
Give 'im some respect, he can roll with our punches, especialy when he knows we're not tryin' to deck him. I anticipated some recoil when I saw "Romish". I think I might've even said to brace for incoming on his rep function.
It's a fair deal.

Thank you for this, Rick. I am a big boy with a very thick skin - and have been VERY active at various message boards for LOTS of years - some of them lots tougher than GT. But I have zero tolerance about the use of slurs such as "Romish". And I do not think it is unreasonable for Catholics to object to it. It is widely accepted as a slur. THAT was - BY FAR - my biggest objection over the last day or so.

I have less of a problem with people arguing about what the word "denomination" means. I do have a problem with people expecting me to use their definitions on my terms. And I do not intentionally impose my definitions on theirs - although I expect at least one person in this thread will disagree.

Someone can claim, for example, that my Church is supposedly the "harlot of Babylon" based on this-and-that Biblical evidence. I don't have a problem with that (although I will disagree). If they use the term as a weapon or as a slur - then that is different.

The word "Romish" is commonly accepted as a slur and nobody here at GT should tolerate it any more than we should tolerate ANY slur of any category. The only exception is if someone uses it innocently (which is what initially happened). But once such a person is informed it is a slur, then they need to stop using it. It's that simple.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.

 

[JoabAnias]

We are all a part of those that penned it.

Oh if only. That would be so much simpler.

The Author is God,

.

.

I know, He told me so when He told me what it meant.

 

[JoabAnias]

Thank you for this, Rick.

Rick is really Catholic.



He is just disgruntled.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Now, this thread is going to get heated.

 

[Standing Up]

-snip-



Hence the futility of saying, "I am a Christian", unless one earnestly strives to serve God. I'd say thats pretty hard to do with a divorced praxis. Thanks be to God we have the Praxis Jesus created.




-snip-

Watch for a new thread in less than two weeks. Shall we not see?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Dear NewMan99

CF Admin Tonks, former high Catholic staffer and now Orthodox, in his announcement about the return of the Nicene Creed as the definition of "Christian," posted this:




.

Why should I care in the least what Tonks says

You SURE cared when I used the word "denomination!"

Should I give links to all the posts you directed to me about my using the word? On and on an on about slurs, how offended and insulted and disgusted you are that I used the word, the talk about the "n" word, how you won't discuss your witnesses with me because I used that word, all the personal rebukes of me? It's still going on by you - 40 pages after I stopped using the term. But Tonks - an ADMIN (but not Protestant and not me) - uses the exact word, in an official announcement, and specifically applies such to The Catholic Church, well..... Kinda my point.


DOES make one wonder about your rant over the term and all your rebukes of me, and then your departure from the discussion because you are so insulted by that word. And it DOES make one wonder about your rather lengthly, passionate diversion into how offended you get over the word (you know) - especially in the light of your emphasis on your "thick skin." But, what causes me pause is why is that rank over (you know) so personally and passionately directed to me - but Tonks gets a, "well, I disagree with him now and then."






in progress....

.

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by JoabAnias

Nope I mean my/THE Churches. We wrote it, we are the authors. We know what it means. We preserve its meaning, not profane it.
​

I'd say that kind of talk profanes it big time, but you probably can't see that for the effect of the blinders. All you forgot to add is "we are God."

How about this:

"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God...Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions...As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms...The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws."

From a Papally-endorsed encyclopedia: Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica ("Handy Canonical, Juridical, Moral, Theological, Ascetical, Polemical, Rubrical, Historical Library"),vol. 5, "Papa (Pope)" article 2 [see also J. P. Migne, 1858 edition, column 1823, Latin] (#1, 13, 18, & 30).

True Orthodox Polemics - Heretics - Roman Catholics - Audacious Papal Claims: The Pope as Christ

 

[JoabAnias]

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to God's commandments.

Very good first Paragraph! I love Lutherans. You all are the closest to Catholics as any non-apostolics these days.




Thats why I come here to fellowship with a good heart.





When I get heresy forced on me by Albion and CJ though I have to just block that out in obedience to the Lord:

Rom. 16-17: Now I beseech you brethren mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.



You see, I don't think they really care about Gods commands at all but only about breaking down my beliefs.

Thats unchristian behavior wouldn't you say?

I mean they already know what I believe, I've been here before. Maybe they harbor some animosity or something from then and think I will suck up the bait. Lol. Personally, I think it may be OCD or something like that toward arguing maybe. I respect them anyway for Christs sake. Doesn't mean I have to listen to any false doctrine or attack on authentic doctrine. They can't even tell the difference.

I refuse to be consumed by rhetoric, is that cool? I've been talking to to many pro-abortionists lately.



Anyway, about your second paragraph, I wasn't be sarcastic at all, Snide maybe but why not. They are so far beneath civil discourse I can't talk to them like a rational adult without getting attention to reality first.

I think people forget this Christianity ain't a quest to be right but to be one. :duh:

Do you want to talk like grown up people about something in particular? You actually seem rational.


Seems if thats tried here though you get like 5 people talking all at once to push peeps buttons. Like my kids do when they are fighting and I am trying to get them to stop. They keep right on yelling at each other to push each others buttons.

What parts of the buckeye by the way?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Columbus

 

[NewMan99]

You SURE cared when I used the word "denomination!"

I cared when you applied your definition of the term to MY words.

On and on an on about slurs,

The only time I mentioned the word "slur" was with regard to "Romish". Period.

how offended and insulted and disgusted you are that I used the word,

I was offended when you continued to impose your definition on my terms - thus misrepresenting what I said whenever you did so.

the talk about how it's the same as using the "n" word,

"ROMISH" is the same as the "n" word in the context that they are both widely accepted as SLURS! I never once compared your use of "denomination" to the "n" word or to any slur.

Just for once, CJ, LISTEN.

how you won't discuss your witnesses with me because I used that word, all the personal rebukes of me?

See above.

But when an Admin (who is not Protestant) uses the very same identical word - and clearly references and applies it to The Catholic Church, well......

And I disagree with his application of it to Catholicism.

DOES make one wonder about your rant and all your rebukes of me, and then your departure from the discussion because you are so insulted by that word.

Good grief.

LISTEN!!!

WHICH word did I depart this discussion about? Which word, CJ? Tell me.

There was ONE word that I was upset with you over because you imposed your definition of it on my words. The OTHER word I was upset with because it is widely accepted as a SLUR and I didn't feel like I should have to tolerate its use even though you and a few others didn't seem to think it was any big deal. And THAT word - the latter word - is why I departed.

So, which word?

 

[Albion]

You SURE cared when I used the word "denomination!" Should I give links to all the posts you directed to me about my using the word? On and on an on about slurs, how offended and insulted and disgusted you are that I used the word, the talk about how it's the same as using the "n" word, how you won't discuss your witnesses with me because I used that word, all the personal rebukes of me? It's still going on by you - 40 pages after I stopped using the term.

I noticed that too.

 

[JoabAnias]

Originally Posted by JoabAnias

Nope I mean my/THE Churches. We wrote it, we are the authors. We know what it means. We preserve its meaning, not profane it.
​

How about this:



From a Papally-endorsed encyclopedia: Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica ("Handy Canonical, Juridical, Moral, Theological, Ascetical, Polemical, Rubrical, Historical Library"),vol. 5, "Papa (Pope)" article 2 [see also J. P. Migne, 1858 edition, column 1823, Latin] (#1, 13, 18, & 30).

True Orthodox Polemics - Heretics - Roman Catholics - Audacious Papal Claims: The Pope as Christ

Man I am popular. Everyone goes out of their way to reply for the person I address.

Wonder why that is. Hmmmm, Its not like I am here to convince you of anything.

Kind of jumpy aren't we?


Yea, I've seen that site years ago.

My Tonsured Hiermonk friend from New Zealand told me that peculiar guy must believe he was the only true Bishop left on earth.

Interesting stuff but irrational.

All most as radical as some Sede Vacantists I have seen. Don't forget them. Oh wait, hows this got to do with the OP?

I forgot this is GT for a sec.

Is this a derail or should we stick on topic?

Dang, maybe I am all off topic here. How did that happen?

Does that have anything to do with Peter being the boss?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Very good first Paragraph! I love Lutherans. You all are the closest to Catholics as any non-apostolics these days.




Thats why I come here to fellowship with a good heart.





When I get heresy forced on me by Albion and CJ though I have to just block that out in obedience to the Lord:

Rom. 16-17: Now I beseech you brethren mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.



You see, I don't think they really care about Gods commands at all but only about breaking down my beliefs.

Thats unchristian behavior wouldn't you say?

I mean they already know what I believe, I've been here before. Maybe they harbor some animosity or something from then and think I will suck up the bait. Lol. Personally, I think it may be OCD or something like that toward arguing maybe. I respect them anyway for Christs sake. Doesn't mean I have to listen to any false doctrine or attack on authentic doctrine. They can't even tell the difference.

I refuse to be consumed by rhetoric, is that cool? I've been talking to to many pro-abortionists lately.



Anyway, about your second paragraph, I wasn't be sarcastic at all, Snide maybe but why not. They are so far beneath civil discourse I can't talk to them like a rational adult without getting attention to reality first.

I think people forget this Christianity ain't a quest to be right but to be one. :duh:

Do you want to talk like grown up people about something in particular? You actually seem rational.


Seems if thats tried here though you get like 5 people talking all at once to push peeps buttons. Like my kids do when they are fighting and I am trying to get them to stop. They keep right on yelling at each other to push each others buttons.

What parts of the buckeye by the way?

I was not always a Lutheran. Regarding debating with an attitude, I have learned the hard way in my early years as member of CF. I will still fellowship and debate with my Christian brethren even though I may not agree with their doctrinal beliefs. I appreciate their patience and I know their frustrations because I have dealt with my own patience and frustrations during those times. In Christ, we all are Christians however we are divided by doctrines. Even though doctrinal differences may arise between Christians, we must still show love to one another. I enjoy debating with all Christians from different doctrinal backgrounds because I can learn alot about my own faith by studying more.

 

[JoabAnias]

Columbus

I got an ex brother in-law who turned preacher down there.

Ex Sea-Bee reformed alchy named Bill.

Good dude. Black sheep like me but a really good dude.

He rode all over the country with me about 12 years ago, got an education, worked in health care a while and now is a preacher I understand. I'd love to catch up with him some day and see what he thinks of the keys of Peter.

I bet that would be fun.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I got an ex brother in-law who turned preacher down there.

Ex Sea-Bee reformed alchy named Bill.

Good dude. Black sheep like me but a really good dude.

He rode all over the country with me about 12 years ago, got an education, worked in health care a while and now is a preacher I understand. I'd love to catch up with him some day and see what he thinks of the keys of Peter.

I bet that would be fun.

Greetings. I say just let him preach the Word and worry about the Keys some other time

 

[Albion]

Good grief.

LISTEN!!!

WHICH word did I depart this discussion about? Which word, CJ? Tell me.

There was ONE word that I was upset with you over because you imposed your definition of it on my words. The OTHER word I was upset with because it is widely accepted as a SLUR and I didn't feel like I should have to tolerate its use even though you and a few others didn't seem to think it was any big deal. And THAT word - the latter word - is why I departed.

So, which word?

What I remember as your words upon departing were a tirade about how we love to pick on Catholics and are like the CARM folks. I was very disappointed in you for a cheap shot like that which went WAY beyond anything that had been said leading up to that point. It seems that you are getting heated here again. Please let it go.

 

[JoabAnias]

I was not always a Lutheran. Regarding debating with an attitude, I have learned the hard way in my early years as member of CF. I will still fellowship and debate with my Christian brethren even though I may not agree with their doctrinal beliefs. I appreciate their patience and I know their frustrations because I have dealt with my own patience and frustrations during those times. In Christ, we all are Christians however we are divided by doctrines. Even though doctrinal differences may arise between Christians, we must still show love to one another. I enjoy debating with all Christians from different doctrinal backgrounds because I can learn alot about my own faith by studying more.

Brother.

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.



I'd stay and chat some more but I gotta run atm.

Mabye later.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I got an ex brother in-law who turned preacher down there.

Ex Sea-Bee reformed alchy named Bill.

Good dude. Black sheep like me but a really good dude.

He rode all over the country with me about 12 years ago, got an education, worked in health care a while and now is a preacher I understand. I'd love to catch up with him some day and see what he thinks of the keys of Peter.

I bet that would be fun.

Columbus is very diverse and you will see all kinds of preachers all over the place including Word of Faith(Rod Parsley). I was getting fustrated with them which caused me to Lutheran.

 

[JoabAnias]

Greetings. I say just let him preach the Word and worry about the Keys some other time

Oh you'd have to know Bill.

We were trapped in a truck together for a couple months. We found respect.


I doubt we would agree but it would still be ok.

I'm sure he wants to thank me for his becoming a preacher.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Brother.

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.



I'd stay and chat some more but I gotta run atm.

Mabye later.

Have a good day