Can Christianity survive without the Pope?

[Eucharistic Adoration]

Word!
But why can't it thrive under the guidance of God?
The Israelites thought that they needed a leader
other than God and looky what happened.

Because individuals make mistakes.

Christian unity is possible under the guidance of the pope if he was chosen by God.

If the pope is not chosen by God then there is no possibility of Christian Unity. Do you think that Jesus left us rudderless?

For the record, God chose individual leaders for the Israelites repeatedly.

 

[Albion]

Because individuals make mistakes.

Christian unity is possible under the guidance of the pope if he was chosen by God.

You've just explained why that is not possible. If individuals make mistakes--as they indeed do--some will decide that the pope is not actually chosen by God. Say, that's exactly what the 2000 year history of the Christian Church shows us!

If the pope is not chosen by God then there is no possibility of Christian Unity.

Sure there is. We're just imagining, you know. We can as easily imagine the Archbishop of Canterbury or the President of one of the Lutheran churches or the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople leading a united church.

Do you think that Jesus left us rudderless?

No. But we are not rudderless. We have his inspired word, the Bible.

 

[Eucharistic Adoration]

You've just explained why that is not possible. If individuals make mistakes--as they indeed do--some will decide that the pope is not actually chosen by God. Say, that's exactly what the 2000 year history of the Christian Church shows us!

If there are multiple "popes" unity is impossible. With one pope, it is possible.

Sure there is. We're just imagining, you know. We can as easily imagine the Archbishop of Canterbury or the President of one of the Lutheran churches or the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople leading a united church.

Only if these leaders taught the exact same thing with regard to faith and morals. This has never happened and it is steadily growing less likely.

No. But we are not rudderless. We have his inspired word, the Bible.

The bible can be made to support almost any position, so it cannot be a rudder without an infallible interpreter.

 

[sunlover1]

Because individuals make mistakes.

Well yeah. And so do groups, but that's a given.

Christian unity is possible under the guidance of the pope if he was chosen by God.

How is it more possible under the pope than under the guidance of God?

If the pope is not chosen by God then there is no possibility of Christian Unity. Do you think that Jesus left us rudderless?

NOO, heck no.
He gave us His Spirit. If He trusts each of us to carry God around
in our temples, surely He trusts us to know how to handle ourselves?

For the record, God chose individual leaders for the Israelites repeatedly

I believe you.

 

[Albion]

If there are multiple "popes" unity is impossible. With one pope, it is possible.

No one suggested anything about multiple popes. What was mentioned were alternate leaders.

The bible can be made to support almost any position, so it cannot be a rudder without an infallible interpreter.

But the interpretations of your theoretically infallible interpreter can be made to support a number of different positions, too, as has happened with Papal decrees.

And then too, no one actually IS an interpreter unless everyone who is affected by his decisions is agreeable to submitting to them. No referee, umpire, or judge means anything if those who are the recipients of his findings don't have to accept them. That's the situation we are dealing with.

 

[Eucharistic Adoration]

NOO, heck no.
He gave us His Spirit. If He trusts each of us to carry God around
in our temples, surely He trusts us to know how to handle ourselves?

He also gave us some explicit commands in the bible.

We must accept those he sent or we are rejecting him.
We must not teach without authorization.
We must be forgiven by the apostles or we are not forgiven.
We must not cause divisions.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He also gave us some explicit commands in the bible.

We must accept those he sent or we are rejecting him.
We must not teach without authorization.
We must be forgiven by the apostles or we are not forgiven.
We must not cause divisions.

Some poster named Tu Es Petrus used to mention those same things......Amazing

 

[Albion]

He also gave us some explicit commands in the bible.

Then the Bible is the rudder you were referring to.

We must accept those he sent or we are rejecting him.

First we have to know whom he sent. Then we have to define their roles. None of this exists when we start off with saying that everyone should accept the Pope as something he is not.

We must not teach without authorization.

No problem there.

We must be forgiven by the apostles or we are not forgiven.

Then no one is forgiven, since none of the Apostles is living.

We must not cause divisions.

Such as happened as a consequence of the bishops of Rome claiming and attempting to enforce powers and authority that were not given to them by Christ.

 

[sunlover1]

He also gave us some explicit commands in the bible.

Amen. THAT's what I'm talking about.
He said to preach the gospel of the Kingdom.

We must accept those he sent or we are rejecting him.

Who doesnt accept those He sent and even sends?

We must not teach without authorization.

Authorization? Remember what rick otto said about the badges?
Seriously though, what authorization? Where is that written?

We must be forgiven by the apostles or we are not forgiven.

Have you reread that? Because that's not really logical.

We must not cause divisions

AMEN!

 

[mont974x4]

Some poster named Tu Es Petrus used to mention those same things......Amazing

Amazingly wrong abourt the same things?

The only thing almost right on that list was about divisions, but then we are also supposed to be seperate from the world and remove the unrepentant brothers from the church....and remove the divisive people.

the consistency in misapplication of Scripture is astounding

 

[LoneSheep]

So which men should I consider infallible? At which point does he cross from fallible into infallible? Was this always so in the long history of the Catholic Church?

 

[Albion]

Isn't the real point to this that we could--in theory--unite around the pope BUT we could just as easily unite around any one of a number of other persons?

There is nothing unique about the pope other than that the Papacy has overseen (caused?) more splits, schisms, and divisions in Christ's church than any other leadership post in Christendom. That track record is not much of a recommendation when it comes to church unity.

 

[JacksLadder]

The bible can be made to support almost any position, so it cannot be a rudder without an infallible interpreter.

Come on you know that infallibility came about in 1870. Not before.

 

[BereanTodd]

Not only can it survive, it probably would survive a whole lot better without the papacy. As for that infallable interpreter, there is but one, the Holy Spirit.

 

[kittn1]

Not only can it survive, it probably would survive a whole lot better without the papacy. As for that infallable interpreter, there is but one, the Holy Spirit.

And all GOD'S people said:

 

[MamaZ]

The bible can be made to support almost any position, so it cannot be a rudder without an infallible interpreter.

There is only one infallable and that is God himself. So therfore the interpreter of scripture lays not in man but in the Holy Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BereanTodd Not only can it survive, it probably would survive a whole lot better without the papacy. As for that infallable interpreter, there is but one, the Holy Spirit.

Oh my goodness! I thought this thread got wiped out in the CF meltdown!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting poll results........would this mean the majority are right or wrong

 

[MamaZ]

LOL leave it to you LLOJ to bring up the past.. TEE HEE

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LOL leave it to you LLOJ to bring up the past.. TEE HEE

Sometimes the Spirit just compels me