Did benny deny the unam sanctum?

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, I don't like boxing matches at all. I am simply wondering in light of your chastisement of me, why you chose to pick up the gloves at all, and ventured off the thread topic as you did? And why that was okay in your view?

Again, I suggest you read thru all the posts, as I did not state anything that wasn't stated by others first and I am not about to go thru all the pages of posts on this thread to find what I have already responded to.
And show me how I was off topic?

 

[Rick Otto]

It's hard to deny the Levitical resemblance.

 

[Rick Otto]

Funny how you use the word heresy like Calvinism is Roman doctrine or something. Just sayin

Not from the informed perspective that Arminius was only repeating the Pelagian position determined to have been heresy but ipso facto reversed at Trent with the "co-operative grace" definition.

 

[Thekla]

It's hard to deny the Levitical resemblance.

Dunno, in College my husband was referred to as "that guy who looks like an Iranian terrorist"

(College has been that long ago ...)

 

[Secundulus]

The differences may be God chosen men (i.e. Prophets, Apostles and etc) while other men were called through other means (Holy Spirit).

The Holy Spirit is God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is something I hadn't heard before. The original document was "lost".
How did that come about and who had possession of it at that time?

Unam sanctam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 18 November 1302, Pope Boniface VIII issued the Papal bull Unam sanctam[1] which historians consider one of the most extreme statements of Papal spiritual supremacy ever made. The original document is lost but a version of the text can be found in the registers of Boniface VIII in the Vatican Archives.[2] It arose due to the Pope's conflict with Philip IV of France over attempts of each to prevent the other from receiving money from taxes.

 

[TraderJack]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but why would a non-RC care about what the Pope says re: defective/non-defective???

To expose false prophets.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Unam Sanctum from the views of Pope Bonifice VIII will always be a part of the Catholic Church's history, it is a major embarresment, no doubt. But Unam Sanctum was never officially declared doctrine or Dogmatic because the Body of the Faith did not accept it. In fact 5 Archbishops and I do believe 20 something Bishops and Cardinals sided with King Philip.

Pope Bonifice was chased out of his offic of the Pope and died in recluse. He, and I don't think you will find any Catholic that will disagree left a Huge Black eye on the Church. And his legacy of Unum Sanctem will always be brought up. But it was in 1302 it is time to get over it.

Would he then be considered as a type of "false prophet/teacher"?

2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False-Prophets in the people as also in ye shall be False-Teachers whoany shall be carrying in sects of destruction, and the One buying them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203> disowning, bringing on them swift destruction. [Jeremiah 14/Matt 24:11/Jude 1:4]

Reve 19:20 and is arrested the beast and with it the false prophet, the one doing the signs in view of it in which it has deceived the ones getting the mark of the beast and the ones worshipping to the image of it. Living were casted the two into the Lake of the Fire of the one burning in sulphur.

 

[TraderJack]

It most ceraintly is, and the topic has even been added in the Cathecism about other Christians.

Unam Sanctum from the views of Pope Bonifice VIII will always be a part of the Catholic Church's history, it is a major embarresment, no doubt. But Unam Sanctum was never officially declared doctrine or Dogmatic because the Body of the Faith did not accept it.

That misrepresentation is contradicted by the Roman Catholic religion itself.

The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia says:

"The Bull lays down dogmatic propositions on the unity of the Church, the necessity of belonging to it for the attainment of eternal salvation, the position of the Pope as supreme head of the Church, and the duty thence arising of submission to the Pope in order to belong to the Church and thus to attain salvation.

Now, go learn what "dogmatic" really means.

It means the opposite of the misrepresentation you gave.

The sugar and spice and everything nice jesus, the tolerant jesus, of the touchy feely modernists with their false concepts of ecumenism that compromises truth for the sake of political correctness, does not exist.

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by MrPolo

Some genuinely believe they must tear down the Pope in order to be a true Christian. Others are ex-Catholics who breakup with the Catholic Church and can only speak of Her like a bitter divorcee who no longer can say a good thing about their ex-partner, emotions run high. Still others enjoy rolling in the muddy pen of victimhood.
​

And others don't.

Good point after an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by TraderJack

To expose false prophets.

Originally Posted by boswd

Like Calvin him and his false theology!!!!!!!!!!!
​

Prove it!

Lets see you actually make a case.

Hi TJ. Seems they are trying to do that over on this thread but I would hope we can keep this thread just on Unam Sanctum for now

http://www.christianforums.com/t7361116/
The Bible Refutes Calvinism / 20 scriptures

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by TraderJack

Good thing Luther made it possible for Arminius to spread his heresy without execution by Rome, eh?
​

Funny how you use the word heresy like Calvinism is Roman doctrine or something. Just sayin

Me thinks you missed something.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why doesn't the Pope of today just announce Unam Sanctum as a document made up by a power hungry deranged defective Pope and just proclaim that all CHRISTIANS outside of the RCC are equal in JESUS's eyes instead of implying us being "ignorant/defective", or something to that effect. Thoughts?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Why doesn't the Pope of today just announce Unam Sanctum as a document made up by a power hungry deranged defective Pope and just proclaim that all CHRISTIANS outside of the RCC are equal in JESUS's eyes instead of implying us being "ignorant/defective", or something to that effect. Thoughts?

It would solve a lot of problems.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It would solve a lot of problems.

Forgive me...

Greetings Ortho and thanks.
One reason I brought up about pope Boniface being "deranged" is that I believe M.L. was also considered that by the early Roman Papacy.
This is one reason why for the life of me I can't understand why the RC's pope just does not simply "renounce" Unam Sanctum [I am not sticking up for either Luther or Calvin here btw]. Thoughts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t6980813-20/
That Martin Luther? He wasn&#8217;t so bad, says Pope

Pope Benedict XVI is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not intend to split Christianity but only to purge the Church of corrupt practices.

Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar of 40 fellow theologians &#8212; known as the Ratzinger Sch&#252;lerkreis &#8212; at Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic............

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Question...If Unam Sanctum is so controversial and divisive within Christianity, as has been seen in this thread, what is preventing the present RC pope to simply "renounce" that document and issue a new papal Bull in it's place? [I may make a thread on this on the OBOB RC board, not sure yet]

[and to tell the truth, I am not that well educated on the "bulls" of the papacy and catholicism]

Papal bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Papal bull is a particular type of letters patent or charter issued by a pope. It is named after the bulla that was appended to the end to authenticate it.
Papal bulls were originally issued by the pope for many kinds of communication of a public nature, but after the fifteenth century, only for the most formal or solemn of occasions. Modern scholars have retroactively used the term "Bull" to describe any elaborate papal document issued in the form of a decree or privilege (solemn or simple), and to some less elaborate ones issued in the form of a letter. Popularly, the name is used for any papal document that contains a metal seal.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any RC's here want to respond? Thanks

 

[TraderJack]

Not from the informed perspective that Arminius was only repeating the Pelagian position determined to have been heresy but ipso facto reversed at Trent with the "co-operative grace" definition.

Eggsackly.

Had not God used Luther and the Reformers to set the captives free of the Roman <edit> and broke the power of the Roman <edit>s, Arminius would have been tried and "punished" by the Inquisitors.

 

[TraderJack]

Question...If Unam Sanctum is so controversial and divisive within Christianity, as has been seen in this thread, what is preventing the present RC pope to simply "renounce" that document and issue a new papal Bull in it's place?

Rome cannot renounce it because it is "infallible dogma".

To renounce Unam Sanctum would mean Rome renounces it's false claim of being the sole, exclusive, infallible voice of God on earth, and that would destroy the papacy and Roman heirarchy upon which the church of the Romans political power is built.

Short answer though is, PRIDE!

 

[Rick Otto]

Eggsackly.

Had not God used Luther and the Reformers to set the captives free of the Roman Pharoah and broke the power of the Roman Pharoahs, Arminius would have been tried and "punished" by the Inquisitors.

LOL!
Most people who step forward to trash Calvin for the death of Servetus, don't know he had escaped the Inquisitors who were about to execute him themselves.
Not many know the story of Arminius either. It is often very reaveling to know the personal histories & situational circumstances of the times when these issues fomented in defining moments.