Fullness of the faith??????????

[boswd]

Reading harry potter is a tradition...LOL, garbage in garbage out.

BTW I've never called my son a little heathen...
When have you ever heard me say someone can't have a beer or a wine? YOU have NOT...

Soon as your done with the personal attacks and misrepresentations of me maybe we can get back to the discussion of this thread.

If that is of NO interest then please move along to a different discussion.

No personal attacks at all, Many Protestant Churchs have doctrines that state "You are required to abstain from Alcohol" if you violate these you are willfully partaking into sinful actions and may be asked to be removed from membership of the Church.
There is a church very close to where I live who had a woman be warned by other Church members and their board that she needed to have her child stop reading Harry Potter, for she was being exposed to sinful doctrines. If not she will be asked to leave the Church. And these are not your off the cuff soup de jour church's that are springing up, but very well know and very respected Church's.

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
​

Please direct your posts to the topic not the person. Post civilly. If this continues the thread will be closed for a cool down.​

 

[Rick Otto]

Mod Hat On Please direct your posts to the topic not the person. Post civilly. If this continues the thread will be closed for a cool down.

Wouldn't it be more just to close down the personal attaker for a cool down?
Would it be too much work for a mod to send a quick "keep less personal" message to the offender?

 

[Hentenza]

Wouldn't it be more just to close down the personal attaker for a cool down?
Would it be too much work for a mod to send a quick "keep less personal" message to the offender?

There are a few offenders Rick, not just one or two. I am seeing it from both camps.

 

[sunlover1]

No personal attacks at all,

Ya did sorta make it personal bos.

Many Protestant Churchs have doctrines that state "You are required to abstain from Alcohol" if you violate these you are willfully partaking into sinful actions and may be asked to be removed from membership of the Church.
There is a church very close to where I live who had a woman be warned by other Church members and their board that she needed to have her child stop reading Harry Potter, for she was being exposed to sinful doctrines. If not she will be asked to leave the Church. And these are not your off the cuff soup de jour church's that are springing up, but very well know and very respected Church's

Traditions of men.
And they're crazier than sheet,
as my potty mouth 21 yo might say.



Maybe we should have a thread to see:

• who's crazier, protestants or non protestants.
• who's killed more folk, prot or non prot.
• who's got more members, prot or non prot.
• And of course, who's dad's bigger than who's.

Heck, Let's THROW DOWN

Mod Hat On​

Man, why do we have to be such weenies that one of our peers
needs to police us?!

 

[Rick Otto]

So cool down a few. Don't punish the whole thread. We're never gonna learn the difference from "personal" if no one points out a specific error & suggests a correction!

 

[MamaZ]

You read scripture through a Calvinist lens which make you unable to accept those passages which contradict your beliefs.

In addition, you adhere to the novel invention known as sola scriptura, which was never part of the teaching of the apostles or the Church.

What is a calvanist lens? Because I believe in predestination I am now accused of reading scripture through some sort of lens? I read the full context of scripture is what I do. There are some passages that have been taken out of the context in which it is written as a whole of the letter and put out as the whole of the truth.. This is why we I take scriptures as a whole. Context is a very important part of reading. I don't know anything about a noval invention of SS.. I am of the belief that scripture is inspired of God and is for correction and reproof and that scripture will equip the man of God for EVERY good work..

 

[MamaZ]

This is the fullness of faith to me.. Scripture. This is my authority over what I believe.. For scripture is the teaching of the Apostles that I adhere to..

 

[chestertonrules]

What is a calvanist lens? Because I believe in predestination I am now accused of reading scripture through some sort of lens?

It is not accusation, it is an observation. For example, when you read that "God wants all men to be saved", you reject it because it contradicts your dogma.

 

[Hentenza]

So cool down a few. Don't punish the whole thread. We're never gonna learn the difference from "personal" if no one points out a specific error & suggests a correction!

Rick is rather simple. A mod hat is posted to avoid the thread closure. Closing the thread is not my intention. If you travel back the last few pages in this thread you plainly see where folks are addressing each other pointly and rudely which means that the possibility that the thread will degenerate to a flame war is likely unless the responses stop being directed at posters.

 

[boswd]

Wouldn't it be more just to close down the personal attaker for a cool down?
Would it be too much work for a mod to send a quick "keep less personal" message to the offender?

But it wasn't a personal attack, The other poster expressed his opinion on Catholic Policy of Days of Obligation. (and let's be honest the person also toed the line of being offensive by using Scripture as to say the other person's Faith is a Farce) But no one calls that person out on it?

All I did was point out it's Pot calling the Kettle Black when Many upon Many Protestant Church's have Church Policy's of what I just named. Calling them Sinners and partaking in Sinful actions. How can I attack someone on a personal level if I don't even know them?

 

[MamaZ]

It is not accusation, it is an observation. For example, when you read that "God wants all men to be saved", you reject it because it contradicts your dogma.

Explain to me why then God closed some men up to disbelief. Also explain to me why Jesus spoke in parbles so those hearing would hear but not understand.. Explain to me why Jesus came and said He layed His life down For His sheep and that His sheep hear His voice and none other will not follow..Explain also to me why God will show mercy upon Whom HE will show mercy..

 

[MamaZ]

I read scripture as a whole not just snippets taken out of the context of what is written.. Context is as important as the words themselves..

 

[boswd]

Also I see Unum Sanctum has been brought up again, this was never official Church Doctrine of the Catholic Church nor was it widely accepted as policy either.

Here is what the Catholic Church teaches about Christians outside the Catholic Church from Vatican II:

15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ's disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

 

[Rick Otto]

It is not accusation, it is an observation. For example, when you read that "God wants all men to be saved", you reject it because it contradicts your dogma.

Then you need to learn to preface your observations with "It is my observation that ~", otherwise it constitutes a personal attack.

You have already been taught how your arbitrary, personal, & private universalist interpretation of "all men" violates the first century idiomatic context of its use to denote "not just Jews" for whom salvation was reserved at the time.

 

[Trento]

Have you also forgotten that the church of the Romans dogmatically declared that the Greek church is not a part of the cheep of Christ?

Medieval Sourcebook: Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302

Is that part of the "fullness of the gospel"?
​

Unam Sanctam does not say that only those who believe in the authority of the Pope can be saved. The statement does not use the phrase 'belief in…is absolutely necessary for salvation.' The teaching does not say that only those individuals who are willingly subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff will be saved. Therefore, non-Catholics can be saved, including persons who adhere to other religions or to no religion. The Pope was not saying that non-Catholics cannot be saved.



Similarly, we could say that Baptism and the Eucharist and Confession are a necessary part of God's plan for our salvation. Some persons get into Heaven without these things, but these things are essential nonetheless. Again, some people are saved even though they do not believe in God. But belief in God is certainly a necessary part of God's plan for salvation.

When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:1-16; interestingly, in these two chapter of Romans St. Paul summarizes Wisdom 13-19)

The ``law unto themselves'' is man's participation in God's eternal law, sometimes known as the natural law. Significantly, St. Paul has not mentioned faith in Christ as a condition for knowledge of this natural law: it is a law knowable by all men without respect to creed. As St. Paul says, it is written on men's hearts, though it can be clouded by sin.

St. Luke, who was a disciple of St. Paul, reports in his gospel the words of Jesus:

And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more. (Lk 12:47-48, cf. Lk 19:26, Mt 25:29, Mk 4:25)

It is finally God alone who sees into men's hearts and what truth they have been given in life, and it is he who will judge on this basis. It is not for human judges to divide the sheep from the goats.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=boswd; Also I see Unum Sanctum has been brought up again, this was never official Church Doctrine of the Catholic Church nor was it widely accepted as policy either.

Nonsense. Papal Bulls are not casual memos. Accept reality, don't redefine it to suit your affections.

Here is what the Catholic Church teaches about Christians outside the Catholic Church from Vatican II:

They are frequently contradicting themselves & changing their position except for the claim that they've never reversed positions or erred.

 

[boswd]

Nonsense. Papal Bulls are not casual memos. Accept reality, don't redefine it to suit your affections.


They are frequently contradicting themselves & changing their position except for the claim that they've never reversed positions or erred.

Ohh brother!!!!!!!! So in other words the Catholic Church should not be allowed to correct an error made by some Power Hungry Pope from Centuries ago?

So should we hold all Calvinist to the beliefs they had on other Christians from Centuries ago as well? Should we hold Calvinist's today for their actions when they hung up the so called "Witches". I think not, so why would this hold true for the Catholics. in Vatican II they righted a wrong, now you can either believe it or not. I choose to believe them.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Trento; Unam Sanctam does not say that only those who believe in the authority of the Pope can be saved. The statement does not use the phrase 'belief in…is absolutely necessary for salvation.' The teaching does not say that only those individuals who are willingly subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff will be saved.

No, it does not use the word "willingly".

Therefore, non-Catholics can be saved, including persons who adhere to other religions or to no religion. The Pope was not saying that non-Catholics cannot be saved.

That seems a rather sly interpretation of Unam Sanctum's last line:
"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. "
"Willingly" has nothing to do with it.

Similarly, we could say that Baptism and the Eucharist and Confession are a necessary part of God's plan for our salvation. Some persons get into Heaven without these things, but these things are essential nonetheless.

Essential to something alltheless essential than salvation.

Again, some people are saved even though they do not believe in God. But belief in God is certainly a necessary part of God's plan for salvation.

Classic doublespeak.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=boswd; So in other words the Catholic Church should not be allowed to correct an error made by some Power Hungry Pope from Centuries ago?

Why not?
And why don't they allow themselves to admit it?

So should we hold all Calvinist to the beliefs they had on other Christians from Centuries ago as well?

No, because Calvinists don't claim infallable inerrancy. Isn't that obvious?

Should we hold Calvinist's today for their actions when they hung up the so called "Witches". I think not,

Yes, we should hold everyone accountable for their own actions.
But you shouldn't. You don't even know what a Calvinist is yet.

so why would this hold true for the Catholics. in Vatican II they righted a wrong, now you can either believe it or not. I choose to believe them.

You must be oblivious to their chronic claim of never having been in error.