Fullness of the faith??????????

[chestertonrules]

The problem with what you have said is it cannot be proven that these traditions actually came from the Apostles.. So therefore we have no solid ground to stand on except the hearsay of men. Faith is not something we do.. Faith is a gift and is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT seen..

There are many writings from the men who learned at the feet of the apostles, including Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.

Many of these early Christians were killed in brutal ways for their refusal to deny the faith.

They were motivated by a desire to spread and preserve the truth.

What gives you the authority to reject their understanding? Do you think they were just making things up or were they faithfully adhering to the traditions that they were given?

 

[sunlover1]

There are many writings from the men who learned at the feet of the apostles, including Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.

Many of these early Christians were killed in brutal ways for their refusal to deny the faith.

They were motivated by a desire to spread and preserve the truth.

Many religions believe in giving their lives for their beliefs.

 

[JacksLadder]

There are many writings from the men who learned at the feet of the apostles, including Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.

Many of these early Christians were killed in brutal ways for their refusal to deny the faith.

They were motivated by a desire to spread and preserve the truth.

What gives you the authority to reject their understanding? Do you think they were just making things up or were they faithfully adhering to the traditions that they were given?

LikeMarcion (Μαρκίω&#957 Lived from (ca. 85-160).

Clement of Alexandria gives a very different understanding of the dates for Marcion. He is said to have been converted while Peter was still preaching and as such during the apostolic period-Wikipedia

Marcion makes some sense since the OT cannon was in dispute for far longer than the NT.

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by MamaZ

The problem with what you have said is it cannot be proven that these traditions actually came from the Apostles.. So therefore we have no solid ground to stand on except the hearsay of men. Faith is not something we do.. Faith is a gift and is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT seen..
​

There are many writings from the men who learned at the feet of the apostles, including Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.

And none of them ever taught any of the so called "Traditions", which were medieval inventions of the Roman Catholic religion.

 

[MamaZ]

There are many writings from the men who learned at the feet of the apostles, including Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.

Many of these early Christians were killed in brutal ways for their refusal to deny the faith.

They were motivated by a desire to spread and preserve the truth.

What gives you the authority to reject their understanding? Do you think they were just making things up or were they faithfully adhering to the traditions that they were given?

I don't know any of them so how can I even try to understand where they were coming from? I can reject any mans understanding if it does not line up with the written. I do not need a man to tell me and teach me the understanding of scripture for their understanding may not be truth.. Only the Spirit of God can teach us the truth.. He is our teacher,sealer,and leader.. For those led by the Spirit of God are indeed children of God. Not those who listen to mens understanding.

 

[chestertonrules]

Many religions believe in giving their lives for their beliefs.

I agree. But individuals don't usually give their lives unless they believe they are protecting the truth.

Do you think the early Christians who willingly gave their lives were sincere Christians? If so, do you think they had been taught errors?

I'm just curious as to how protestants deal with these martyrs when their words and beliefs sound very Catholic(or Orthodox).

 

[JacksLadder]

What gives you the authority to reject their understanding? Do you think they were just making things up or were they faithfully adhering to the traditions that they were given?

God of course Now I admit I do not like the prophet sackcloth outfit but they are more comfy than my fatigues.

 

[chestertonrules]

I don't know any of them so how can I even try to understand where they were coming from? I can reject any mans understanding if it does not line up with the written. I do not need a man to tell me and teach me the understanding of scripture for their understanding may not be truth.. Only the Spirit of God can teach us the truth.. He is our teacher,sealer,and leader.. For those led by the Spirit of God are indeed children of God. Not those who listen to mens understanding.

Their writings line up perfectly with scripture, but they contradict your biased interpretation of scripture.

 

[MamaZ]

Mens understanding of scripture may be of help. But the scriptures themself are a much higher priority to me than understandings of men..

 

[chestertonrules]

God of course N

According to scripture, God didn't give you such authority.



1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

 

[MamaZ]

Their writings line up perfectly with scripture, but they contradict your biased interpretation of scripture.

Wow so thier understanding of scripture is to be more enlightened than those of us here now that open up the scriptures and God reveals Himself to us? Did Jesus not say He would never leave us or forsake us? Does not the written itself tell us we need no man to teach us but the Holy Spirit and the annointing within us He is our teacher and will lead us into all truth.. Many of men have sat under the teaching of others and came way with their own understanding of what these other men were saying. This is why we take everything we hear to the very written of scriptures to prove them. To see if they are of the Spirit of God. I do not take everythig I hear to mens understanding of scripture..

 

[MamaZ]

According to scripture, God didn't give you such authority.



1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Who is them? If we reject who? By who's authority do you stand?

 

[MamaZ]

Their writings line up perfectly with scripture, but they contradict your biased interpretation of scripture.

How is my enterpreation of scripture biased?

 

[JacksLadder]

According to scripture, God didn't give you such authority.



1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

So...are you telling me I have to give up the sackcloth

 

[JacksLadder]

Who is them? If we reject who? By who's authority do you stand?

The Coptic apostolic church of course not those heretical Romans

 

[TraderJack]

We should have all truth as we were promised.


Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


That promise is for the church not individuals , if it was that promise is broken.


He will guide you into all truth.
Is that what we have.

That is a gross misunderstanding and misappropriation of that snippet.

"All truth" pertains to the truth that is neccessary for salvation, not everything that can possibly be known.

From the beginning there have been various sundry groups making bold and incredible claims such as having the "fullness of the gospel", and were teaching traditions of men in opposition to the Truth of God's Word and the Gospel and Tradition preached and taught by Christ and the Apostles.

Because of the proliferation of such deceivers, the children of God are admonished to test them for validity.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.

When the so called "fullness of the gospel", claim is tested, and those "traditions" are tested against, they are found to be empty of truth.

 

[chestertonrules]

So...are you telling me I have to give up the sackcloth

I think there is a provision for that!

Enjoy.

 

[MamaZ]

Who is them Chester? how is my understanding of scripture biased?

 

[chestertonrules]

Because of the proliferation of such deceivers, the children of God are admonished to test them for validity.


When the so called "fullness of the gospel", claim is tested, and those "traditions" are tested against, they are found to be empty of truth.

How do we know the truth, according to scripture?

6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.



Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

 

[chestertonrules]

Who is them Chester? how is my understanding of scripture biased?

The early Christians. The Church. That is THEM.

You have a modern interpretation of scripture which is different from that of the early(and current) Church.