At what point does 'Untrue' become 'True'?

[consol]

If I am the only person to believe something does that make it true? of course not,
if I can get someone else to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 10,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 500,000,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
not quite............
because from a religious point of view the answer would be: 500,000,000 people can't be wrong...

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

If I am the only person to believe something does that make it true? of course not,
if I can get someone else to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 10,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 500,000,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
not quite............
because from a religious point of view the answer would be: 500,000,000 people can't be wrong...

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

Can something be historically true one year; then, say, ten years later be false?

Can an event occur; then ten years later, it didn't occur ten years ago?

 

[consol]

Can something be historically true one year; then, say, ten years later be false?

Can an event occur; then ten years later, it didn't occur ten years ago?

If an event occured, it occured, if it didn't, it didn't, time changes nothing.

If 1 or 20,000,000 people believe something it make no difference,
the only thing that matters is if that something it's true or not.

AV I can understand completely where you are coming from, you are religious,
all you have is words nothing else, you have no facts or figures you have nothing else to work with,
trying to change the question so it falls in with your belief is not how it works,
it may be the way you con yourself into believing your religion but reality demands more than words.

 

[Ectezus]

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

Numbers do mean something if you life right next to all of those who agree with you. It's called a bubble.

One look at the world and you would know how absurd religion is. The vast majority of the world thinks someone else's religion is crazy, yet they all think their own religion is the right one.
It's hilarious when you think about it.

Basically Atheists are the only ones with a uniform theory regarding god without making exceptions: "you're all wrong."

- Ectezus

 

[consol]

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

Numbers do mean something if you live right next to all of those who agree with you. It's called a bubble.

That's why they do it, if they were on their own in normal society they would stand out like sore thumbs,
so it's best that they stick together, that's why countries are associated with certain religions,
every one believes the same thing so they won't stand out from the rest, how sad is that?

One look at the world and you would know how absurd religion is.
The vast majority of the world thinks someone else's religion is crazy,
yet they all think their own religion is the right one.
It's hilarious when you think about it.

AND WHY CAN'T RELIGIOUS PEOPLE SEE THIS FOR THEMSELVES?
PERHAPS THEY CAN BUT THEY CHOOSE TO IGNORE THE FACT,
IT SEEMS THAT BLINKERS ARE THE BEST THINGS EVER INVENTED.

Basically Atheists are the only ones with a uniform theory regarding god without making exceptions: "you're all wrong."
- Ectezus

And that's the truth.

 

[sbvera13]

Can something be historically true one year; then, say, ten years later be false?

Yes- "History" is a construct of the human mind, and humans can change their minds.

Can an event occur; then ten years later, it didn't occur ten years ago?

No- if it happened it happened. If it didn't happen, it didn't happen.

eidt: I see wat you did thar! How can it be "true" if you change your mind abotu it later? If you use this argument you will be equivocating on the definition of "true." There is the absolute sense of the word, used in the second question, wherein the truth value of a statement cannot change. There is the relative version of the word, used in the first question, that judges the truth value of a statement relative to the knowledge of the person making the statement. You almost caught me on that. I will thus qualify my first answer so that both of them use the same version of the word "truth":
No- Something can appear to be historically true, and then ten years later appear to be historically false. The historical perception of an events truth value has no effect on it's actual truth value.

 

[Skaloop]

Can something be historically true one year; then, say, ten years later be false?

Is this a Pluto thing? Even if it is, the answer is no. Ten years ago, Pluto was classified as a planet. Today, it is still true that ten years ago Pluto was classified as a planet. It isn't classified as such anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that it was ten years ago.

Can an event occur; then ten years later, it didn't occur ten years ago?

No. The event occured. How it is classified may change, though.

ETA: Or was that first part a Thalidomide reference?

 

[tansy]

Your op is correct IMO, Consol

 

[tansy]

Numbers do mean something if you life right next to all of those who agree with you. It's called a bubble.

One look at the world and you would know how absurd religion is. The vast majority of the world thinks someone else's religion is crazy, yet they all think their own religion is the right one.
It's hilarious when you think about it.

Basically Atheists are the only ones with a uniform theory regarding god without making exceptions: "you're all wrong."

- Ectezus

I'm not sure that you're quite accurate there Ectezus.

 

[tansy]

Anyhow, none of us probably know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth on ANY subject

 

[sbvera13]

Agreed, it is impossible to know with 100% certainty what the truth is. We can however know with 100% certainty that there is a truth. Which is the point of the OP- the truth will not change; our perception of it can.

 

[Ectezus]

I'm not sure that you're quite accurate there Ectezus.

What part and why?

 

[tansy]

Agreed, it is impossible to know with 100% certainty what the truth is. We can however know with 100% certainty that there is a truth. Which is the point of the OP- the truth will not change; our perception of it can.

Agreed

 

[tansy]

N

umbers do mean something if you life right next to all of those who agree with you. It's called a bubble.

Yes, you're right as far as it goes...but of course, it doesnt necessarily mean that there won't be some who will stand out from the crowd, come what may, if they are sure about whatever alternative convictions they have.

One look at the world and you would know how absurd religion is. The vast majority of the world thinks someone else's religion is crazy, yet they all think their own religion is the right one.
It's hilarious when you think about it.

I don't think that that the vast majority of the world think someone elses religion is crazy...they might think aspects of a certain religion are crazy or misguided or wrong. But I should think that most people of faith are still learning and searching for truth.
probably people will think their own religion is right (or at least aspects of it), until they learn or discover more truth...in which case, hopefully they will change their minds.

Basically Atheists are the only ones with a uniform theory regarding god without making exceptions: "you're all wrong."

Can't disagree there!

- Ectezus

.

Oh...just to add - if for some reason, I came to the conclusion that Christianity wasn't the right way, then I would have to stop being one

 

[AV1611VET]

Is this a Pluto thing?

ETA: Or was that first part a Thalidomide reference?

Neither --- at the time I wrote it, I was thinking of the events in the Bible.

 

[Skaloop]

Neither --- at the time I wrote it, I was thinking of the events in the Bible.

Ah, I see. But those things aren't necessarily historical facts.

Still, which events specifically were you thinking of?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, I see. But those things aren't necessarily historical facts.

Still, which events specifically were you thinking of?

The Crucifixion.

 

[Skaloop]

The Crucifixion.

OK. If the events described in the Bible actually occurred, then once it happened, it was a historical fact, and would remain so forever. Even if, in the future, nobody believed it happened, and nobody accepted it as historical fact, it would still be historical fact.

 

[Gracchus]

Anyhow, none of us probably know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth on ANY subject

Agreed, it is impossible to know with 100% certainty what the truth is. We can however know with 100% certainty that there is a truth. Which is the point of the OP- the truth will not change; our perception of it can.

The following is unequivocably true: If "'A' implies 'B'" is true, and "'A' is true" is true, then 'B' is true.

Here is another unequivocably true statement: The sum of the squares of the two shortest sides of a plane right triangle is equal to the square of the longest side.

There is just no way around it. Some things are just true.

The universe is an emergent property of necessary truth.

Cogito ergo sum, is a necessary truth.

 

[hillard]

If I am the only person to believe something does that make it true? of course not,
if I can get someone else to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 10,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 500,000,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
not quite............
because from a religious point of view the answer would be: 500,000,000 people can't be wrong...

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

It does make you wonder what it's all about.