Homosexuals and Bisexuals

[selfintercession]

thats ridiculous because it contradicts real life events of homosexuals that have repented of homosexuality.

Denying your true feelings and trying to live a lie doesn't count.

 

[BigBadWlf]

I am against Homosexuality... I think it is unmoral,

There are many who think racial equality is immoral. Does their belief make it so?

and totally unnatural...

But it occurs in nature and it is natural for people who are gay/lesbian to be …well gay/lesbian. Making it natural

but it is not what I think that matters, or anyone else that feels the way I do... it is what the Father feels, and that is a totally different...

The New Testament tells us Homosexual acts are a sin, but it also tells us, that Christ died for our sins, and that it is not by our ability to follow the laws of Moses, or our good deeds that gets us into heaven... But it is our FAITH! Sin kills the body... But FAITH saves the SOUL!

No God does not call homosexuality a sin. That claim is based on an inaccurate translation of the Greek word αρσενοκοιται to mean homosexual. unfortunately there is no evidence to back up this translation at all.

We have laws that govern our society, and these laws say Homosexuality is legal. We as Christians have laws that say it is un-moral, but we have a covent that says PUT GOD FIRST, and HAVE FAITH in GOD, CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT, Treat Others The Way You Want to Be Treated, and you will walk through the narrow gates into Heaven.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” John 13:34

How does this commandment and the idea of putting God first work with prejudice?

 

[Justaman0000]

What problem do you have with adultery? Besides what Jesus has to say about it, of course.

It hurts the other spouse. It causes hate, issues of trust, and its completely disrespectful and unhonorable of the vows made to one another when married.

What of those who don't repent though? What of those who don't believe they are committing a sin? Will your loving god simply cast them into hell for all eternity? How is this fair?

However he judges them He will judge them. And whatever reward he gives to them he will give to them. I cannot tell you how he will judge. He will reward everyone according to what they have done, whether good or bad. All I can say is that sin or detestable practices will not be rewarded with good.

I cannot chose to be homosexual any more than a homosexual can choose to be straight. We're going to have to get over these petty hatreds of others differences.

O, but you can choose. Its been done. Thats called free will. Did you ever learn to like something that you didn't like at first? You can learn to love someone even if you hated them all your life. Same concept.

Just curious, why hasn't god granted me such graces? Is it only for the selective few? Must I believe in a deity -without proof for that matter- so that I may see? How can you be sure of what god has said? The bible holds no proof in itself.

probably because you haven't given yourself wholeheartedly to him. Without faith it is impossible to please God. For everyone who comes to him must believe he exists, and that he rewards those who diligently seek him. Trust me when i say that to see through his eyes is a reward.

 

[CraigBaugher]

Unmoral? Why do you think it is immoral? Unnatural? Despite the fact it is found in nature? Sounds rather natural to me. Because the bible says so, right?

Why thank you for correcting me... immoral... and yes... because it says so in the bible! And show me in nature where homosexuality is accepted, because in most species of monkeys and apes, homosexuals are killed, in most other animal species, they are chased off. So where is it accepted?

But it also says in the bible that you are my brother and to treat you with respect and kindness. So, I do, and I will!

 

[BigBadWlf]

yes, in your heart it does. you have let your hate control your thoughts

Shinny shinny mirror

thats ridiculous because it contradicts real life events of homosexuals that have repented of homosexuality.

There is no such "real life events".

There are people who have been willing to lie about their sexual orientation. There have been people who have denied themselves love. But no one has ever changed sexual orientation

 

[Justaman0000]

It is really sad that you have to reduce an entire minority to lust just to justify your own personal prejudices.

whats sad is that you have made them a minority. They are people too, God gives the same chances to all people. He lets the sun rise on the good and the evil, and he lets the rain fall on the wicked and the righteous. as far as God is concerned this is one world and one race of people, the human race. I don't have any of my own personal prejudices. God has said what he finds detestable, and His Spirit has reassured me what is right and wrong.

 

[BigBadWlf]

O, but you can choose. Its been done. Thats called free will. Did you ever learn to like something that you didn't like at first? You can learn to love someone even if you hated them all your life. Same concept.

The only “choice” gays and lesbians make about their orientation is the choice to either lie about their sexual orientation or to be honest about it.

 

[Justaman0000]

Denying your true feelings and trying to live a lie doesn't count.

Alright then if someone constantly has murdurous thoughts then i guess they should persue them. Because denying them and not killing someone would just denying their true feelings and thats definatly not good as you presume. This ridiculous analogy can be used in several cases not just murder, so the fact that murdering hurts someone and homosexualty doesn't isn't a good come back. Like i, and many others who follow our Lord, have said, its not what is right in your eyes but in Gods.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Why thank you for correcting me... immoral... and yes... because it says so in the bible!

Racists happily quote the bible to justify their belief that Caucasians are socially superior to non-whites. Does the fact that these people can quote the bible in support of their position make racism good or moral or just?

Remember the bible also says that we should kill rape victims (or at least make them marry their rapists)
That it is acceptable to kill rebellious children
That its OK to have (and physically abuse) slaves
That the handicapped should not be allowed in churches
That getting your hair cut is a sin
And a host of other fun things modern Christians happily ignore

And show me in nature where homosexuality is accepted, because in most species of monkeys and apes, homosexuals are killed, in most other animal species, they are chased off. So where is it accepted?

You might want to look up the social structure of the bonobo and while you are at it check out dolphins and penguins


While you are doing that can you please cite some references showing just what animals kill homosexual members of their species?

But it also says in the bible that you are my brother and to treat you with respect and kindness. So, I do, and I will!

So how does prejudice fit into this?

 

[BigBadWlf]

whats sad is that you have made them a minority. They are people too, God gives the same chances to all people.

People who are members of a minority group.
Just like blacks
And Jews
And the left-handed
And the blind
And the Japanese
And Hindus


Are you willing to say any of these minorities operate on lust but not on love?

 

[Justaman0000]

There are many who think racial equality is immoral. Does their belief make it so?

of course not, God made everyone equal.

But it occurs in nature and it is natural for people who are gay/lesbian to be …well gay/lesbian. Making it natural

There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death. Not everything man finds natural is natural. Its merely an opinion of oneself. For us, God lets us see through his eyes, and understand as he does, and we understand why he sees homosexuality as detestable.

No God does not call homosexuality a sin. That claim is based on an inaccurate translation of the Greek word αρσενοκοιται to mean homosexual. unfortunately there is no evidence to back up this translation at all.

I'm sure you have one instance in one part of the bible that might have been translated wrong but cleary over and over again it was not. but please if you can give us all this evidence of the translation errors for every instance that homosexuality is spoken of as wrong.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” John 13:34

How does this commandment and the idea of putting God first work with prejudice?

Don't you want you children (if you have them, if not think if you did) to obey and love you? Lets say you have a neighbor and they really aren't nice. Your son goes over and makes friends with him and he listens to him but not you. He tells him to do evil things and lies to him, and to your son he is really cool. But to top it off you constantly tell your son what is right but he won't listen to you because he loves the ways of evil more. Wouldn't you hate this?

 

[Justaman0000]

Shinny shinny mirror


There is no such "real life events".

There are people who have been willing to lie about their sexual orientation. There have been people who have denied themselves love. But no one has ever changed sexual orientation

Oh, i wasn't aware that you could read man's thoughts and look into their hearts and see that they are all lieing. Yep i guess everyone is who they are and that no one can really change they just lie to themselves, right?

 

[selfintercession]

Alright then if someone constantly has murdurous thoughts then i guess they should persue them. Because denying them and not killing someone would just denying their true feelings and thats definatly not good as you presume. This ridiculous analogy can be used in several cases not just murder, so the fact that murdering hurts someone and homosexualty doesn't isn't a good come back. Like i, and many others who follow our Lord, have said, its not what is right in your eyes but in Gods.

Why bother

 

[Justaman0000]

Racists happily quote the bible to justify their belief that Caucasians are socially superior to non-whites. Does the fact that these people can quote the bible in support of their position make racism good or moral or just?

yes and they also change and deny other parts of teh bible so that what they say cannot be contradicted. They only except certain parts to fuel their hate and ego. Remember it is written that the God of the Jews is the same God of all. and that all Jews and gentiles are alike, but i guess that would contradict their hate.

Remember the bible also says that we should kill rape victims (or at least make them marry their rapists)
That it is acceptable to kill rebellious children
That its OK to have (and physically abuse) slaves
That the handicapped should not be allowed in churches
That getting your hair cut is a sin
And a host of other fun things modern Christians happily ignore

None of that is true. Moses was given authority to give those laws. Most of the laws that Moses made were made because man's hearts were hard. Jesus healed the handicapped and blessed them, so thats not true. A woman cutting their hair in those days may have caused others to hate her or detest her, but it definately wasn't wrong. At least I never read anywhere where The Lord said don't cut your hair.

 

[CraigBaugher]

There are many who think racial equality is immoral. Does their belief make it so?

Nope...

But it occurs in nature and it is natural for people who are gay/lesbian to be …well gay/lesbian. Making it natural

Where... and it is acceptable behavior that is not dealt with by banishing or killing... and no, I do not think gays should be killed or banished... My brother is gay, and I love him with all my heart. I don't agree with his life...

No God does not call homosexuality a sin. That claim is based on an inaccurate translation of the Greek word αρσενοκοιται to mean homosexual. unfortunately there is no evidence to back up this translation at all.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9 is says, malakos nor arsenokoitEs will not enter into the Kingdom of God.

malakos = catamites = a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.

arsenokoitEs = sodomites = One who engages in sodomy, thus, anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex, or copulation with a member of the same sex.

So clearly, the Bible says its wrong.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” John 13:34

How does this commandment and the idea of putting God first work with prejudice?

I treat everyone the same way, the way I would like to be treated, thus, I do not mistreat gays. I do not agree with their life style, I do not accept it as being normal, but I never mistreat anyone. But you can tell be eye to eye, that you do not like me or what I stand for, and I will stretch out my hand to shake yours, and tell you, "Great... Let us agree, that we can disagree and still treat each other with respect."

 

[Justaman0000]

People who are members of a minority group.
Just like blacks
And Jews
And the left-handed
And the blind
And the Japanese
And Hindus


Are you willing to say any of these minorities operate on lust but not on love?

thats the problem, people have singled these people out just because they're different. Not only that they have belittled them by calling them a minority and sticking them in a nice little group. Prejudice in its worst form because its excepted. So why even call homosexuals or anyone a minority. I thought we were talking about people in general.

 

[CraigBaugher]

Racists happily quote the bible to justify their belief that Caucasians are socially superior to non-whites. Does the fact that these people can quote the bible in support of their position make racism good or moral or just?

Remember the bible also says that we should kill rape victims (or at least make them marry their rapists)
That it is acceptable to kill rebellious children
That its OK to have (and physically abuse) slaves
That the handicapped should not be allowed in churches
That getting your hair cut is a sin
And a host of other fun things modern Christians happily ignore



You might want to look up the social structure of the bonobo and while you are at it check out dolphins and penguins


While you are doing that can you please cite some references showing just what animals kill homosexual members of their species?


So how does prejudice fit into this?

We are ALL SLAVES!!! We are slaves to Christ! Is it bad to be a slave?

Jews were slaves... History show slaves came in every race... I'm a SLAVE and PROUD OF IT!

Get out of the OLD TESTAMENT, and Live in the NEW!!!

Christ changed the world... For the better!!!

 

[BigBadWlf]

of course not, God made everyone equal.

But somehow gays and lesbians are less equal than others

The point being that racists happily use the bible and invoke the name of God to justify their

So why does believing that homosexuality is immoral make homosexuality immoral but the same doesn’t’ hold true when applied to other minorities?

There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death. Not everything man finds natural is natural. Its merely an opinion of oneself.

Rhetoric doesn’t change what is natural into un-natural

For us, God lets us see through his eyes, and understand as he does, and we understand why he sees homosexuality as detestable.

I thought God treated everyone as equal? How does detestable fit into equal?

I'm sure you have one instance in one part of the bible that might have been translated wrong but cleary over and over again it was not. but please if you can give us all this evidence of the translation errors for every instance that homosexuality is spoken of as wrong.

There remains no evidence to support the translation.

For most of Christian history the word was translated as masturbators.

Don't you want you children (if you have them, if not think if you did) to obey and love you?

I want my children to be safe and happy

Lets say you have a neighbor and they really aren't nice. Your son goes over and makes friends with him and he listens to him but not you. He tells him to do evil things and lies to him, and to your son he is really cool. But to top it off you constantly tell your son what is right but he won't listen to you because he loves the ways of evil more. Wouldn't you hate this?

So you want me to imagine my neighbor is telling my boys lies about gays and lesbians?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Oh, i wasn't aware that you could read man's thoughts and look into their hearts and see that they are all lieing. Yep i guess everyone is who they are and that no one can really change they just lie to themselves, right?

so where are all these ex-gays then?

No one can seem to find them

 

[BigBadWlf]

yes and they also change and deny other parts of teh bible so that what they say cannot be contradicted. They only except certain parts to fuel their hate and ego.

Shinny shinny mirror

None of that is true.

All biblical laws…sorry

Moses was given authority to give those laws. Most of the laws that Moses made were made because man's hearts were hard. Jesus healed the handicapped and blessed them, so thats not true.

Leviticus 21: 17-21 list 7 handicaps that may not approach the alter of God
The blind,
The crippled (which I take to mean anyone with an amputation as ell
hunchback,
dwarf,
the blind,
anyone who had testicular cancer
anyone suffering from eczema (not really a handicap thou)

A woman cutting their hair in those days may have caused others to hate her or detest her, but it definately wasn't wrong.

Leviticus 19:27

At least I never read anywhere where The Lord said don't cut your hair.

you’ve never read the bible?