Visiting Lutheran Churches-What to look for

[breanne]

Hello,

I've been browsing this forum for a while as well as WT, and find myself in agreement with most of Lutheran doctrine. My hubby and I are going to start visiting some of the Lutheran churches in our area soon. I am trying to develop a list of sorts of things to look for in a solid Lutheran church and hoping you all could help me with this. I grew up Seventh-day Adventist, and have been attending an evangelical church for the last two years. I have never attended a church service of a mainline protestant church, so I am completely at a loss as far as what to look for. I am also hoping to develop a list of questions to ask a pastor before joining a particular church.

Any suggestions/opinions you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
In Christ,
Breanne

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Make sure you find a good confessional parish. Noticeable marks- Altar/Pulpit/Baptismal font, Law/Gospel and Christ Crucified preaching, the presence of our formal liturgy the Divine Service, and the absence of a stage.

 

[Jim47]

Check out above the the sticky threads, Words of Lutheran Wisdom, 95 Theses , The Augsburg Confession and possibly one of the simplest yet most important stickies is Luther's Small Catechism

You may have already explored some of our conversation threads, these can be a bit confusing at times because the posts are a mix of conservative and liberal members. I think its best to go the stickies and the links offered below to start with, this will give you a basis to learn and to be able to ask questions on things that you don't understand or don't agree with.

The conservative Lutheran chucrhs all have new member training which is great for Lutheran seekers. Its a bible class given by the church's Pastor and will train you in the basic doctrines of the Lutheran faith. You will find that these are all taken from the bible, that is from a traditional bible such as the NIV or others in that catagory. Stay away from the liberal versions if you really want to learn the Lutheran teachings.

Here is a hread we started to give Lutherans internet resources for learning. http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7354149

I highly recommend staying away from any site that is not sponcered by Lutherans as they will lead you astray.


Below is a link to the WELS statement "This we believe" You will have to open the link then click on the language you want, presumably english
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2601&collectionID=783

Below is a link to the WELS question and answer section, there are many topics to choose from, all answered by ordained WELS Lutheran Pastors.

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1517&cuQA_qaID=1


That should give you a start heh?

 

[breanne]

Thanks for the links! I will study those threads further...I've looked into WELS and though we have a couple WELS churches, my concern with this synod is that if I read correctly...I would be unable to fellowship(pray, study the Bible, visit their church services,etc) with my non-Lutheran family. Is this an accurate statement of the WELS position? My parents recently left the SDA church as well, and are just starting to understand the Gospel and basic Christian doctrine. I need to be able to support, fellowship, and help them in their transition, so I probably couldn't join a WELS church although I appreciate their conservative stance on many other issues.

In Christ,
Breanne

 

[breanne]

Thank you for the advice. It seems most of the churches in our area are contemporary/blended in their service style. I have definetely bumped up the more traditional churches to the top of my list. What exactly is meant by confessional churches? I though all Lutherans believed in the confessions from the Book of Concord?

In Christ
Breanne

 

[Edial]

Thanks for the links! I will study those threads further...I've looked into WELS and though we have a couple WELS churches, my concern with this synod is that if I read correctly...I would be unable to fellowship(pray, study the Bible, visit their church services,etc) with my non-Lutheran family. Is this an accurate statement of the WELS position? My parents recently left the SDA church as well, and are just starting to understand the Gospel and basic Christian doctrine. I need to be able to support, fellowship, and help them in their transition, so I probably couldn't join a WELS church although I appreciate their conservative stance on many other issues.

In Christ,
Breanne

You probably misundestood.

You would not be able to partake in the Communion, but the rest should not be a problem at all.
Maybe Jim would clarify more.

There is also ELCA, which I am a part of.
Some ELCA congregations however, could get a bit extreme in their theology.

A conservative ELCA congregation might be a right fit for you.

Welcome

Ed

 

[Jim47]

Thanks for the links! I will study those threads further...I've looked into WELS and though we have a couple WELS churches, my concern with this synod is that if I read correctly...I would be unable to fellowship(pray, study the Bible, visit their church services,etc) with my non-Lutheran family. Is this an accurate statement of the WELS position? My parents recently left the SDA church as well, and are just starting to understand the Gospel and basic Christian doctrine. I need to be able to support, fellowship, and help them in their transition, so I probably couldn't join a WELS church although I appreciate their conservative stance on many other issues.

In Christ,
Breanne

Fellowship teachings from the WELS follow the bibles teachings. I understand your concern though, as a member of my church and an elder for quite some time I have studied fellowship practies taught by the WELS for quite a while. Fellowship teachings are the hardest to understand and the hardest to accept, but it is completely biblical.

By becoming a WELS member you would not be able to join your non WELS family members in prayer, or worship with them unless of course you take them to your church

Private bible study with them with would also be out, unless of course you take them with you to your local WELS church.

I'll give you an example of a family gathering where prayer is offered and its fine. For Easter we are planning on having my wifes family for Easter dinner and get together. It will be at our church's fellowship hall, and either my Pastor will offer the prayer if he accepts to join us, or I will offer the prayer or possibly my son who also belongs to my church.

So it is possible to fellowship with your friends and family, but it needs to be done in a setting where the WELS church is hosting the fellowship. Once you and your husband have established yourselves as solid WELS members and understand the doctrines taught by the WELS (which are all taken from the bible) then you and your husband could host private fellowship with your family, as long as your family understands that you and your husband will be leading the fellowship, prayers and bible study. This would also be following our Lord's teaching that He left us:

Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

 

[joyfulthanks]

Hi Breanne, and welcome!

I've found my home in the LCMS. It holds to the Lutheran confessions, and is also conservative issues that are important to me, such as male-only clergy, pro-life, and the inerrancy of Scripture. It is not as conservative as WELS on fellowship issues, and though women cannot be pastors, they can vote on congregational matters (which, in my understanding, they cannot in the WELS churches). (I don't really care about the women voting-thing much since I'll vote with my husband anyway, but for some people it seems to be an important issue.)

Though congregations vary, our local congregation leans toward being liturgically conservative, with the traditional Lutheran liturgy. However, I do know that many LCMS churches are starting to go the way of contemporary services.

IMO, the two most important things in a church are not style, but substance - that the Word of God is accurately preached, and the sacraments rightly administered. Those would be at the very top of my list, if I were still looking.

 

[Jim47]

Hi Breanne, and welcome!


IMO, the two most important things in a church are not style, but substance - that the Word of God is accurately preached, and the sacraments rightly administered. Those would be at the very top of my list, if I were still looking.

 

[breanne]

Hello Jim,

While I applaud the desire for doctrinal unity, I don't understand where this idea comes from Biblically. Could you explain this a bit more? I'm not a huge fan of plucking verses to justify a position, but via the internet that seems to be the most efficient way to tackle things.

My main concern is not wanting my family to feel like second-class Christians. Having grown up in an environment that considered all other Christian groups to be apostate, I have trouble accepting this kind of fellowship practice. I realize it is a hard line to draw as to how much doctrinal agreement there needs to be for fellowship, but the hardest for me to understand is the issue of prayer fellowship. As Christians who believe in the Bible, the Trinity, and salvation by grace through faith alone, don't we pray to the same God?

In Christ,
Breanne

 

[breanne]

Thanks for the welcome, joyfulthanks! Right now I am looking into LCMS and WELS mainly, for some of the reasons you stated. Is the LCMS as varied on the liberal/conservative spectrum as the ELCA seems to be? Substance(Word properly preached/Understanding of sacraments) is top of my list and the main reason I am moving away from evangelicalism. I am trying to understand Lutheran preaching a bit better. I know that Law and Gospel should both be present, but beyond that is the style left up to the individual pastor? My current church works through a book of the Bible verse by verse. Is this the same in a Lutheran church?

Thanks again for the advice!
In Christ
Bree

 

[joyfulthanks]

Thanks for the welcome, joyfulthanks! Right now I am looking into LCMS and WELS mainly, for some of the reasons you stated. Is the LCMS as varied on the liberal/conservative spectrum as the ELCA seems to be? Substance(Word properly preached/Understanding of sacraments) is top of my list and the main reason I am moving away from evangelicalism. I am trying to understand Lutheran preaching a bit better. I know that Law and Gospel should both be present, but beyond that is the style left up to the individual pastor? My current church works through a book of the Bible verse by verse. Is this the same in a Lutheran church?

Thanks again for the advice!
In Christ
Bree

Hi Bree,

I'm not the best person to ask for info, as I've just fled the evangelical world into Lutheranism recently, myself!

However, I think I can answer one of the questions you posed above. The Lutheran church goes by a lectionary. That means that there are certain Old Testament, Epistle, and Gospel readings assigned for each week. They are long selections - usually a printed page or so each, and they are read in their entirety during the liturgy.

The pastor then preaches on one of the lectionary texts. This is one thing that I love about the Lutheran church - you get a good, steady diet of the Word. None of this "Let's quote one little verse as a starting point, and then launch out with 25 unrelated thoughts by the pastor" that you get in some evangelical churches.

It also means that the pastor can't pick a favorite topic and camp on it. You get a well-rounded diet. For example, in a Lutheran church I visited one week, the lectionary reading from the Gospels was when Jesus said, "If anyone divorces his wife and marries another, he commits adultery." (My paraphrase). Most pastors don't want to touch that one with a ten-foot pole in this day and age! But true to form, the pastor preached on it. Having lectionary readings like that keeps things balanced, and ensures that you are getting the whole counsel of God, and not just some pastor's pet topic all the time. It also ensures that the pastor can't easily skip over uncomfortable topics in favor of those that are easy and popular.

 

[RadMan]

Hi Bree,

I'm not the best person to ask for info, as I've just fled the evangelical world into Lutheranism recently, myself!

However, I think I can answer one of the questions you posed above. The Lutheran church goes by a lectionary. That means that there are certain Old Testament, Epistle, and Gospel readings assigned for each week. They are long selections - usually a printed page or so each, and they are read in their entirety during the liturgy.

The pastor then preaches on one of the lectionary texts. This is one thing that I love about the Lutheran church - you get a good, steady diet of the Word. None of this "Let's quote one little verse as a starting point, and then launch out with 25 unrelated thoughts by the pastor" that you get in some evangelical churches.

It also means that the pastor can't pick a favorite topic and camp on it. You get a well-rounded diet. For example, in a Lutheran church I visited one week, the lectionary reading from the Gospels was when Jesus said, "If anyone divorces his wife and marries another, he commits adultery." (My paraphrase). Most pastors don't want to touch that one with a ten-foot pole in this day and age! But true to form, the pastor preached on it. Having lectionary readings like that keeps things balanced, and ensures that you are getting the whole counsel of God, and not just some pastor's pet topic all the time. It also ensures that the pastor can't easily skip over uncomfortable topics in favor of those that are easy and popular.

We'll if you like the "direct and to the point" approach then you will like the CFW Walther daily devotions called "God Grant It". It's a lot like the lectionary and follows the church seasons.

 

[WildStrawberry]

Hi Bree!

Welcome to the forum! God's richest blessings be upon you as you search for a good Christian/Lutheran home!

I'm LCMS and if you check out LCMS.org you'll find links to their FAQs section. Those should help as well.

My LCMS church is very conservative as are most of the LCMS churches around my area. You may run into a liberal "LCMS" church but know that they're not usually the "norm". LCMS practices male only clergy, pro-life, close communion etc. Your family can worship with you but we ask that they refrain from communing unless they are part of the LCMS. Or if your Pastor should talk with them and discern that they are in agreement with the teachings.

This doesn't mean that they are "second class Christians". It is actually a loving practice so that they may eat and drink in a right manner. The Bible teaches that those who eat and drink without discerning Christ in the sacrament eat and drink DEATH unto themselves. This is why we practice CLOSE (not closed) communion.

My God guide you on your journey!!

Kae

 

[breanne]

Hello Kae,
Thanks for the welcome. I am in agreement with the idea of close communion and would have no problem explaining that to my family if they were to visit. From what I read on LCMS's website and here, my hubby and I are most in agreement with the LCMS doctrines. There are around 10 LCMS churches in my city, so if we decide to limit our search to LCMS we'll still have a lot to look into.
In Christ,
Breanne

P.S. Praying for you and your kitty!

 

[QuiltAngel]

I you are looking for a confessional lutheran church which practices close communion, I can recommend Good Shepherd Lutheran church in the south part of the city. My son attends Good Shepherd and I have really appreciated services I have attended there.

 

[WildStrawberry]

<snip>P.S. Praying for you and your kitty!

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[breanne]

Thanks for the recommendation. Someone on the Wittenberg Trail also recommended Good Shepherd to me. I will be certain to visit there.

In Christ,
Breanne

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Thanks for the recommendation. Someone on the Wittenberg Trail also recommended Good Shepherd to me. I will be certain to visit there.

In Christ,
Breanne

It sounds like you've been getting a lot of recommendations to check out an LCMS parish. I'm LCMS and I happen to love it. Hopefully you enjoy true evangelical worship in an ancient setting, the Divine Service.

 

[Jim47]

This is possibly the most difficult question to answer Breanne, but I will give an honest attempt by referring to the same type questions being asked and answered at the WELS Q & A forum.

First link with answer pasted in,(again, this is from WELS, and not my own work) link http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=63&cuItem_itemID=25298

question presented, I have a question about participating in a Bible study and fellowship. Some people I work with are forming a Bible study group. The participants in the group will be from various denominations. My question is would participating in such a study group contitute fellowship or not?

answer given by a WELS Pastor,
Remember the purpose for the principles of fellowship--to give a clear testimony to the truth. People of different denominations could get together and honestly discuss their differences. Lutherans for example could explain why they believe baptism of babies and recognizing the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Lord's Supper are the necessary biblical teachings. This would be giving a clear testimony. This, however, is not what most Bible study groups such as the one you are considering are about. Most often they are based on the premise that differences of doctrine are not that important and that it does not really make any difference who leads the group or if the leaders have different beliefs. Another premise is that people can worship and pray together without agreement in what they believe. This would be giving a false testimony..


Next question, link http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=63&cuItem_itemID=24235

I'm new to WELS. After worship we do have a Bible Study, but time is limited for individual questions. I will ask my Pastor for a church phone contact. I apologize for using this service too much. My question is about praying with another Christian who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior, but is a member of a denomination that differs in belief about baptism and communion. I know it is wrong to pray with someone that is an unbeliver or praying with someone in a false religion. I can pray for them but not with them.

answer given by WELS Pastor
First of all, welcome to our fellowship. Hopefully by this time you will not only be enjoying a healthy relationship with your pastor but also making use of the phone and possibly other contact methods to bring him your questions when they surface.
The archive section of this Q & A has many prior postings on the subject of prayer and prayer fellowship, so you might want to check that out. Three essays on this specific subject are also posted in the WLS on-line essay file ( http://www.wlsessays.net/subject/P/Prayer+–+Fellowship) and you may enjoy a more thorough personal study of the issues.
The Bible's church fellowship principles govern all expressions of fellowship, including joint Christian prayer as well as worship and joint gospel work. Our relationship with all other professing Christians is included in these principles and their application. In other words, joint prayer with professing believers whose beliefs differ from our own (on any subject revealed in the Bible) are governed by the fellowship principles. And the basic teaching remains that we are not to express doctrinal unity with other professing believers if such unity does not in fact exist.
If the other Christian you have in mind is rightly described as a "weak brother" who is open to instruction, you may express fellowship and testify to him or teach him at the same time. If his wrong beliefs are embraced despite adequate warning and testimony to the truth, in love you are to testify against that error and not express oneness in the confession of the faith. You will have to determine if his membership in that erring church or denomination is accurately reflecting his personal convictions or not. If so, you may not have joint prayer with the errorist.


Breanne, there are many other replies given to similar questions, but its not right for me to put them all in here, so I will give you the direct link to these questions and you can read through them, then if you still have questions please use this thread you started to ask your questions.

If you haven't already figured this out, which I'm sure you have, the WELS is about the only major Lutheran synod that has this strict fellowship practice. In a bible class my Pastor gave last year on this subject the members also asked many similar questions, and my Pastor's diffinitive answer was, which doctrines does the bible say it is Ok to teach against?

here is the link to the questions about fellowship practices
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1519&cuQA_qaID=1&cuTopic_topicID=63

If you have a local WELS church, perhaps you can ask the Pastor if you can borrow the libraries copy of "Church Fellowship" by John F Brug, or you can buy it at the WELS web site at the Northwestern Publishing House operated by the WELS
http://online.nph.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?process&procID=10435&categoryID=1821