Stoning of Stephen against the Law

[sunlover1]

In other words,
I thought he was
very pleased with
my choices.
Had I chosen the
other, I would have
been in my rights.
But I chose the high
road (that time).

NO comparison to Steven btw lol.

 

[ALABALE]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Sunlover -
I truly believe in what you said and I believe that we can make God stand up!!
Just like we stand up for a standing ovation, or in my church if the preacher is saying something that "hits home" we stand up as a sign of agreement!

I think with our actions, decisions or even suffering - we can make God stand up!!

In the instance where Stephen was getting stoned I believe God wanted to come and rescue him SO BADLY that He stood up!!!!! - as a sign of: "I know what you're going thru my child......"- just my humble opinion

 

[sunlover1]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Sunlover -
I truly believe in what you said and I believe that we can make God stand up!!
Just like we stand up for a standing ovation, or in my church if the preacher is saying something that "hits home" we stand up as a sign of agreement!

I think with our actions, decisions or even suffering - we can make God stand up!!

In the instance where Stephen was getting stoned I believe God wanted to come and rescue him SO BADLY that He stood up!!!!! - as a sign of: "I know what you're going thru my child......"- just my humble opinion

oh man!!



That reminds me of the prodigal son story.
SUCH love. (My pastor calls it the prodigal
Father story, because of the extravagence of
the Father)

GOD standing there 'waiting' on us.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock.
He's persuing US...
Who is man that He should be mindful of
us?

Behold! What manner of love the Father
has bestowed on us, that we should
be called the sons of God!

Again, thanks for the blessing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-p5I1ySPhg

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ALABALE
What I find interesting LLofJ is something you mentioned where it states that "...Jesus was STANDING..."
No where else in the Bible do we see Jesus STANDING. We mostly hear of him SITTING at the right hand of the father.

Why was he Standing?? Good one to dicuss!

I had a view that it could have been in Judgement and He is also standing in the midst of the Cadlesticks in Revelation. Don't know if the correlation is there or not but I am open to views. Thanks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Would you say the Judeans comitted "murder" by stoning Stephen?

Paul also veriifes that account in Acts 20 and the greek word for "Stephen" also symbolizes "crown". I also am of the view that these murderous Judeans are being symbolized in the Jewish Hebrew book of Revelation. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 18:31 Saying then the Pilate to them: " Be taking Him ye, and according to the Law of ye, judge! ".
Said to him the Judeans: "to-us not is permitted to put to death no-one".

Matt 27:25 And all the people, answering, said--His blood be upon us and upon our children! [Matt 23:35]

Acts 6:10 And not they were strong/iscuon <2480> (5707) to withstand to the wisdom and to the Spirit to which he talked. [Reve 12:7,8?]

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen/stefanon <4736>, calling upon [the Lord], and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"

Acts 22:20 And, when the blood being poured-out of Stephen the witness of thee, even I myself was standing by, and together-approving, and guarding the garments of them who were assasinating him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well , according to the Law , they had permission . Now , according to the what Rome's law was for them , they were not permitted .

Could those that were stoning and accusing Stephen be the ones symbolized in Reve 16:21?
This hail could symbolize a type of "stoning" me thinks. Thoughts?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised to hearts and to the ears, ye always to the Spirit, the Holy are striving! As the fathers of ye, also ye:
Acts 7:54 Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed upon him with their teeth.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"

Reve 16:21 And Hail great as talent-weight/talantiaia <5006> is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men. And blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [Isaiah 28:17/Ezekiel 38:22]

 

[squint]

Another thing interesting I noticed. "Stephen" sees Jesus standing out of the rights of God and the word heaven is singular in verse 55 but plural in vs 56.
Interesting also how it is similar to the event in Revelation 19. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Acts 7:55 Beginning yet full of Spirit, holy, stretching/gazing into the heaven, he saw/perceived glory of God, and Jesus having stood out of rights of the God,
56 and said, "Behold! I am beholding the heavens being opened/anewgmenouV <455> (5772) and the Son of the Man out of rights having stood of God!"

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven being opened/anewgmenon <455> (5772) and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful-one and True-one and in justice He is judging and is battling.

W-H ) Revelation 19:11 kai eidon ton ouranon hnewgmenon kai idou ippoV leukoV kai o kaqhmenoV ep auton pistoV [kaloumenoV] kai alhqinoV kai en dikaiosunh krinei kai polemei

Textus Rec.) Revelation 19:11 kai eidon ton ouranon anewgmenon kai idou ippoV leukoV kai o kaqhmenoV ep auton kaloumenoV pistoV kai alhqinoV kai en dikaiosunh krinei kai polemei

Probably a more interesting question is how they knew what Stephen was seeing in the first place. Obviously the writer (supposedly inspired by the HG) was enabled to define that sight. Heaven/heavens- There appears to be multiple zones. We technically are already 'seated' in heavenly places (plural) (Eph. 2:6)

 

[Standing Up]

Deut. 17:12 "The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

The stoners were in the wrong, not listening to Jesus Christ our priest who stood to hear the case.

Mrk. 14:60 The high priest (Caiaphas) stood up {and came} forward and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"

 

[SummaScriptura]

Another thing interesting I noticed. "Stephen" sees Jesus standing out of the rights of God and the word heaven is singular in verse 55 but plural in vs 56.
Interesting also how it is similar to the event in Revelation 19. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Acts 7:55 Beginning yet full of Spirit, holy, stretching/gazing into the heaven, he saw/perceived glory of God, and Jesus having stood out of rights of the God,
56 and said, "Behold! I am beholding the heavens being opened/anewgmenouV <455> (5772) and the Son of the Man out of rights having stood of God!"

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven being opened/anewgmenon <455> (5772) and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful-one and True-one and in justice He is judging and is battling.

W-H ) Revelation 19:11 kai eidon ton ouranon hnewgmenon kai idou ippoV leukoV kai o kaqhmenoV ep auton pistoV [kaloumenoV] kai alhqinoV kai en dikaiosunh krinei kai polemei

Textus Rec.) Revelation 19:11 kai eidon ton ouranon anewgmenon kai idou ippoV leukoV kai o kaqhmenoV ep auton kaloumenoV pistoV kai alhqinoV kai en dikaiosunh krinei kai polemei

The heaven into which Stephen looked would have been in the Holy of Holies of the heavenly temple not made with hands where Jesus has been since the ascension. That is a place into which the accuser of the brethren has no access, only we through Christ.

The created heaven into which spiritual forces of wickedness currently can access and bring suit before God against God's people is another area of heaven. At some time future, Satan's access before that throne will be terminated shortly before the kingdom of Messiah is set up on earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The heaven into which Stephen looked would have been in the Holy of Holies of the heavenly temple not made with hands where Jesus has been since the ascension. That is a place into which the accuser of the brethren has no access, only we.

The created heaven into which spiritual forces of wickedness currently can access and bring suit before God against God's people is another area of heaven. At some time future, Satan's access before that throne will be terminated shortly before the kingdom of Messiah is set up on earth.

So you are saying the Kingdom of JESUS is not now set up here on earth
Sorry but I disagree.....

Mark 1:15 And saying "has been filled the Time and has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758) the Kingdom of the God.
Be ye reforming! and be ye believing! in the Good-Message.

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is"

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

 

[SummaScriptura]

I know there are some things written in the Bible that are hard to believe. Where someone is being stoned to death, I just do not see how they could have the time and be so composed to orate the things that Steven and James the Just (brother of Jesus) are written to have said.....all the while stones were striking their head at very close range and great force. The New Testament says that it happened to Steven, so they must have done this away from the Roman eye.

Acts 7:57-60 (King James Version)


57Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was not stoned while preaching, per the scripture you quote. So no, its not hard to believe. About James' death, who can be sure as that's not scripture?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thks for your contribution Summa. Any others want to contribute?

 

[SummaScriptura]

Hi. Awhile back while I was studying on and translating Revelation, I came across this event in Reve 16 concerning the "hail".

Could this also not symbolize a type of stoning? The greek word normally used for "plague" is actually used as "scourge/whip/stripes" in the rest of the NT.

Notice the similarity in Isaiah 28:17 and the word most translations use "annull" in Isaiah which should actually be "atoned". Some Christ-ians view the Papacy/CC in Revelation. Thoughts?

Reve 16:21 and hail, great as talent weight is descending out of the heaven up the mankind and blaspheme the mankind the God out of the blow/stripe/#4127 of the hail, that great is the blow/stripe of her, tremendous.
[Isaiah 28:17,18]

4127 plege {play-gay'} from 4141;; n f
AV - plague 12, stripe 5, wound 4; 21 1) a blow, stripe, a wound 2) a public calamity, heavy affliction, plague,

Isaiah 28:17 Also I will make justice the measuring line, And righteousness the plummet; The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will overflow the hiding place. 18 Your covenant with death will be atoned, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, then you will be trampled down by it.

Nahum 3:2 A sound/voice of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear, and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies

Simply because you find two different biblical writers who used the same Greek (or Hebrew) word, does not mean the word possessed the same meaning to both writers. Even if two writers of scripture possessed the same connotations associated with the same word, does not mean they used the same connotation of the word in their own context(s). Its a logical fallacy to equate the same usage of the words because the words are the same.

Coming back from that a bit however, I'm not saying you should stop doing what you do as many on the CF, including me, find it helpful, its still something to pursue, but there is a threshold of proof that needs to be overcome before one can proceed to accept two writers are using the same word in the same way.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

........Coming back from that a bit however, I'm not saying you should stop doing what you do as many on the CF, inclusing me, find it often interesting, its still something to pursue, but there is a threshold of proof that needs to be overcome before one can proceed to accept two writers are using the same word in the same way.

Hi Summa. Then let's study on them shall we?

 

[SummaScriptura]

Did the Judeans know they were breaking the Law by stoning "Stephen", as according to what they told the "Pilate" in John 18:13 it was not permitted to put to death anyone. <snip>

Laws change. Was the law under Pilate at the death of Jesus the same as the law at Stephen's stoning?

Also, do you think the "Judeans" were averse to being law-breakers in all cases? They were not averse to breaking God's law. They were not averse to breaking Jewish tradtion. Why would we assume they always were law-abiding?

 

[SummaScriptura]

What I find interesting LLofJ is something you mentioned where it states that "...Jesus was STANDING..."
No where else in the Bible do we see Jesus STANDING. We mostly hear of him SITTING at the right hand of the father.

Why was he Standing?? Good one to dicuss!

He stood up for a moment to greet Stephen who was coming home.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Probably a more interesting question is how they knew what Stephen was seeing in the first place. Obviously the writer (supposedly inspired by the HG) was enabled to define that sight. Heaven/heavens- There appears to be multiple zones. We technically are already 'seated' in heavenly places (plural) (Eph. 2:6)

56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

 

[SummaScriptura]

So you are saying the Kingdom of JESUS is not now set up here on earth
Sorry but I disagree.....<snip>

No, the Kingdom of God is not as yet fully established in the earth. It is increasing, yes. It is the Church's daily prayer that His kingdom come in all its fullness to earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, the Kingdom of God is not as yet fully established in the earth. It is the Church's daily prayer that His kingdom come to earth.

Oh. I see. That would be from the Lord's prayer?

Matt 6:10 Let be coming the Kingdom of Thee, let be being become the will of Thee as in heaven and upon *the land:

Textus Rec.) Matthew 6:10 elqetw h basileia sou genhqhtw to qelhma sou wV en ouranw kai epi thV ghV

 

[Evergreen48]

Did the Judeans know they were breaking the Law by stoning "Stephen", as according to what they told the "Pilate" in John 18:13 it was not permitted to put to death anyone. I am doing a study on this in relation to Revelation so any input on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Any people or nations which the Romans conquered were allowed to continue under the laws of their own constitution as long as such laws did not interfere with the Roman goverment's exacting tribute from them, or show rebellion against the Roman laws. So the Jews were not breaking any Roman law when they stoned Stephen. However, they were not in accordance with Mosaic law concerning the execution by stonning to death. For it appears that they were determined to exact the death penalty on him first, and then prove afterwards that their actions were justified.

Comcerning the manner in which the stonning of an individual was executed:

The condemned person was put outside the camp, because his crime had made him unclean, and whatever was unclean could not remain inside the camp. When they came within 6 or 7 feet of the place of execution, they stripped the criminal, if a man, leaving him nothing but a cloth about the waist. The place on which he was to be executed was elevated, and the witnesses went up with him to it, and laid their hands upon him. Then one of the witnesses struck him with a stone upon the loins; if this did not kill him then the witnesses took up a large stone, one as large that it would take at least two men to lift it, and threw it onto his chest. This was the 'coup de grace' which was the finish of the act. - From Calmet's Great Dictionary of the Bible.